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[scourge728]

So apparently the issue was the place I'm currently at had a router issue and it was unplugged and plugged back in and works again

[Yoink]

Good grief, this forum really jumps at any chance to begin espousing the evils of the demon drink.
The mere mention of the word "teetotallers" sets the bandwagon a-rolling.

I must say, I somewhat dislike the inclusion of vegans alongside "atheists, tee-totallers and ex-smokers" - those are all purely personal choices, whereas the whole point of veganism is refusing to take part in perpetuating the wholly unnecessary suffering of beings other than yourself. (I'm pretty sure the occasional weirdo who follows such a diet for health reasons is more correctly referred to as "plant-based", rather than vegan.)   
Well, I guess an anti-smokers argument could be based around the nuisance of secondhand smoke, but eh. Still pretty different.   

Point is, though, I don't really make a habit of preaching my beliefs on animal rights to people (although that's probably more to do with my social anxiety and lack of confidence, aka 'cowardice'), especially not my parents with whom I generally try my best to get along well with despite all the weird and/or stupid shit they get up to.
Generally they tend to extend the same courtesy to me, which is why in this case I was caught off-guard.


Also, never trust a teetotaller. Just what are they doing with all that money they save by avoiding astronomical bar prices? Shifty bastards, hoarding wealth for nefarious purposes no doubt...   

[Frumple]

Eh. Nah, a good chunk of anti-religion and general anti-drug sentiment is based on refusing to take part in perpetuating the whole unnecessary suffering of beings other than yourself thing, too. Alcohol is one of the primary causes of vehicle related deaths, ferex, tobacco is a hefty weight on most healthcare systems (and there's stuff like prenatal issues, too, iirc) which drains all sorts of resources that could be helping others, so on, so forth. It's hella' easy to have very much non-personal concerns influencing decisions to abstain or minimize use of most sorts of mostly-recreational drugs.

Dislike of organized religions (if maybe not straight up atheism) because of what they do to other people isn't exactly a small part of that stuff, either. Pretty sure I recall you being in australia, which iirc had a fairly recent report come out involving that subject and child (sexual?) abuse, just as an example.

E: Did just hit me that if I make it to the grave without falling off the proverbial bus, I'll be the first male of my particular convergence of bloodlines, least as far back as we've found record enough to know, that didn't spend some or most of their lives addicted to alcohol. Almost makes me feel like having no intention to have kids is something like a waste; I'd be one of the very few in my family tree that didn't subject their children to spending part of their life having a parent at least half in the bottle...

Not nearly enough to offset the desire not to inflict the slate of genetic fuckups that are pretty certain to have been a major cause of that history on someone, but still. Never really percolated that I'd be more or less the first. Feels melancholy, man.

[milo christiansen]

My view of vegetarians can be summed up quite simply: Vegetables are what food eats.

[Doomblade187]

My view of vegetarians can be summed up quite simply: Vegetables are what food eats.

But yellow squash and zucchini are so tasty.

[wierd]

Mine aren't so harsh/black-white.

More broken down depending on TYPE of vegetarian..

1) Animals are friends, not food (and associated "all meat is cruelty" and other hyperbole)
No, sorry. Not buying it. Having raised food animals free range in my youth, and personally knowing people that still do, no. Just no. If you want to believe that, you can join the ranks of other irrational belief holders, but you wont be able to convince me you are right. I will budge a little, and agree that most food animals are grown in abysmal conditions-- but most is not *all*. I do just as much to help combat factory farming by buying exclusively from known free range growers as you do by boycotting meat entirely. Also, it helps to research what happens to "Strategy R herbivores" when they do not have predation. Just sayin'. (Chickens are a mostly strategy R critter, and I eats me a LOT of chicken.)

2) "I just dont like meat"
Ok, Fine. No problem, I wont force you to eat it. I will continue to enjoy my grilled chicken sandwich though.

3) Producing meat is resource inefficient; that land should be used to grow soybeans instead. (etc)
This is a very "human centric" (as in, maximizing immediate human use), and less "Ecologically mindful" view! While factory raised meat animals certainly fit this bill, free-range actually serves a valuable role as a preserve for a wide assortment of wild ecologies, which is NOT WASTED LAND.  Monoculture, which "plant all that to soybeans" et al directly requires, is devastating to the environment. Animal pasturage can happen on tracts of land not suitable for crop based agriculture. (Brush and trees, rocky, brooks and streams etc...) This is very apples and oranges. Asserting that you can just turn that pasturage into productive cropland like magic is nonsense: Production will be very low, cost to cultivate will be very high, and chance of crop failure will be very high. It works best being what it is-- marginal land left to wild plant and animal species, with food animals allowed to graze on it. This produces an economic incentive to leave that land alone (so it does not become an erosion hazard, or worse) Granted, this only works properly when PROPER grazing practices are observed, and economic forces favor cramming too many animals into too small a space, but it is still much more feasible than turning it into soybeans.

4) Meat is unhealthy
This is not exactly true, but not exactly false. Like basically all food items, overconsumption is not healthy. People like meat; we are evolutionarily programmed to love it, because it is rich in proteins and fats, with little filler (cellulose is bulk fiber filler. Meat? No fiber.) It is very nutrient dense. As such, people tend to over-consume meat. Meat is a good thing to add to a diet, not a good thing to dominate a diet.  In moderation, meat makes a great nutritional supplement that tastes great.

[Putnam]

vegetarian options suck here so it's not an option for me

if i move somewhere where i can i probably would just because vegetarian food is fucking awesome

[redwallzyl]

good summery. I tend to encounter a lot of "meat tastes bad" type arguments. Which is normally based on saying that unseasoned meat doesn't taste good. I find this both wrong and rather like an excuse for other justifications they don't want to say. Most food is rather bland if simply raw or cooked and that which is not generally has sugar in it.

[Arcvasti]

With enough of the right sauces, anything vaguely organic can taste good.

[Rose]

I just don't consider meat to be valid food, due to having not been raised eating it.

[scriver]

The only thing worse than a preachy teetotaller is an insistent drinker.

[Eric Blank]

Or a serial/organized criminal/terrorist/totalitarian dictator's lackey murderer. Those are pretty close to the worst.

[GiglameshDespair]

Or someone who talks at the theatre. There's a special hell for those, I've heard.

[Teneb]

Or someone who talks at the theatre. There's a special hell for those, I've heard.

They are the real terrorists.

Batman vs Superman was not a good movie. But what made it worse was that there were a pair of teenage girls behind me TALKING ALL THE DAMN TIME, COMMENTING EVERY SCENE EVEN IF IT WAS JUST A CHARACTER CAMLY WALKING DOWN A CORRIDOR. Everyone in the theatre was telling them to shut the fuck up. Their friends were telling them to shut the fuck up. And they didn't. It was horrible.

[LordBaal]

1) Animals are friends, not food (and associated "all meat is cruelty" and other hyperbole)