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[wierd]

Re: vegans, in terms of environmental impact eating meat is the same thing as eating plants.  Livestock in the US eats exactly the same corn humans do.  People who eat meat have effectively just eaten more corn than the vegetarian next to them, AND they've added some cow farts to global warming.

With current economics in play, that is true, but that does not make it appropriate to pretend that prairie grass fed cattle are not a thing.

Additionally, many cattle operations leverage non human edible corn products (husks, cobs, stalks) to create cattle fodder, in the form of ensilage. Don't mistake "corn fed Iowa beef" for "all beef in the us".

[overseer05-15]

Every part of a corn is edible if you're brave enough.

[Reelya]

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/people-and-culture/food/the-plate/2016/11/seaweed-may-be-the-solution-for-burping-cows/

Cow farts is basically a fixed problem, we just need to scale up the solution.

Actually, despite a lot of jokes about farting cows, the bulk of methane emissions— about 90 percent—come from their slightly less impolite burps. According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), global livestock collectively burp and poot about seven gigatonnes (that’s seven billion metric tons) of CO2-equivalents each year. About 14.5 percent of anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions come from livestock. That is more than global car and airplane traffic emissions combined.

In the presence of Asparagopsis taxiformis—described by De Nys as “a real stand-out” among the tested seaweeds— methane production was cut by 99 percent.

It's a fixed problem, they just need funding now. Also, the farmers benefit because

The end result of such microbial metabolism is methane, of which the average cow produces some 200 to 500 liters per day. ...  Methane burped or shamefully otherwise expelled into the atmosphere is not only an environmental liability, but is wasted energy that could be better put to use increasing food productivity. Seaweed experiments in Canada were inspired by observations that seaside cattle, who periodically chowed down on storm-tossed seaweed, were both heftier and healthier than their inland relatives. Less belched-out methane, in other words, makes for more on-the-hoof meat.

The problem is scaling up the cultivation of this seaweed. However ... we could cheat here and use CRISPR to add the needed genes to other feed plants.

[AzyWng]

Whoever the hell said they found vegans arguments “hallow”:

It’s “hollow”. The arguments are marred by some underlying weakness, and are (probably) not consecrated in any fashion.

[hops]

Can't we just all agree that food is just inherently disgusting while also simultaneously being weirdly delicious.

[Hanslanda]

Nope.  I don't find food disgusting at all.

[wierd]

Whoever the hell said they found vegans arguments “hallow”:

It’s “hollow”. The arguments are marred by some underlying weakness, and are (probably) not consecrated in any fashion.

Tell that to the IME on my smartphone...

[Ultimuh]

If food was disgusting, then why do we keep eating?

[Derpy Dev]

If food was disgusting, then why do we keep eating?

Because the average person doesn't want to starve to death.^{citation needed}

[pisskop]

Nah, its because our parents forced us to eat as children.  We've been the victims of a generations-long scam

[Tack]

It's cult indoctrination, I tell you!

Whoever the hell said they found vegans arguments “hallow”:

It’s “hollow”. The arguments are marred by some underlying weakness, and are (probably) not consecrated in any fashion.

Pedantry gets my first and foremost thumbs up!

I just do not like industrial farming. Without emotions using logic it is an illogical practice that the majority of you find easy because you are hidden from the reality. Especially you city folk you grew up in the machine.
I've done it and grown from my mistakes... I hope some of you can at least understand and maybe one day change your viewpoints.

This sounds SUPER preachy! I'm a born farmboy, and also I've worked in industrial farming, and now I live in the city.
Know what's changed? I eat free range.
Well, that and my country has an awesome manplace/animalplace ratio, so there's not a gigantic amount of factory farming.

I find myself strongly seeing a need for reduced population and reduced population density, to overcome these problems, because those problem exist because more sustainable techniques are less space and energy efficient, and human habitation encroachment is a major factor.

Humans don't like "kill the humans" as an idea. Especially not if they're the humans being killed.
If you manage to make a Hollywood blockbuster showing the successful implementation of a voluntary human cull, then that'd be just gold.
My thoughts? Do like Japan. 2D waifus and sexbots for everybody. Population successfully reduced.

The wtf is that one side of the argument was advocating communism. Communism! Wtf. There were quite a lot of them too (admittedly mostly young folks from the US).

I used to love the idea of communism.
Took me playing that election game realise that socialists are usually poor or dumb or both, because the rich smart ones do well in a capitalist society.

[Flying Dice]

The wtf is that one side of the argument was advocating communism. Communism! Wtf. There were quite a lot of them too (admittedly mostly young folks from the US).

I used to love the idea of communism.
Took me playing that election game realise that socialists are usually poor or dumb or both, because the rich smart ones do well in a capitalist society.

Or not wholly selfish.

It's funny how that sort of attitude vanishes overnight when someone living in a society without a social safety net is hit by a car or gets cancer or something and has their life ruined by profit-motivated greed.

That's not to say that there aren't plenty of lazy people who scam social services, but that should motivate closing loopholes rather than just saying "lol if you're born poor or have something bad happen to you, you should just kill yourself or accept life as a wage-slave".

[Trekkin]

Took me playing that election game realise that socialists are usually poor or dumb or both, because the rich smart ones do well in a capitalist society.

If you have to be rich to do well in a capitalist society, how is it any different from hereditary nobility?

[Reelya]

Upward mobility is largely a myth that's propagated because it keeps the lower masses hopeful. Raw capitalism is rarely a meritocracy.

And they basically pay lip service to basic principles, but ignore or invert them as suits the narrative:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

e.g. two of the tenets of free capitalism are supposed to be

(A) "rational self interest" (greed) is the best thing to grow the economy

(B) "nobody knows an individual's needs better than the individual themself"

When rich men conspire to lower wages "rational self interest" is the justification. After all they know how to run their own business (B), and it's explained that rational self interest helps everyone in the long run (A).

However, when workers get together and do the same thing: combining their bargaining power, they suddenly claim that the working man doesn't know his own best interests (contradicting tenet B) and that the greedy worker's self-interest is going to destroy the economy (contradicting tenet A).

So, when it's workers suddenly they don't want rational self-interest they want mindless followers who take a hit for the team. e.g. good little communist drones. e.g. it's capitalism for the rich and communism (russia-style) for the poor.

[wierd]

sadly, no.

More often than not, it is shameless kleptocracy, with the most successful individuals lobbying hard to redefine the rules so that only they get to keep stealing, without actually calling it stealing.