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[heydude6]

As a guy who used to be a gluten-free christian, you guys are making a bigger deal out of it than it really is. You can still participate in most church rituals. It's just that in the parts where they give out bread, you just cross your arms on your chest and they give you a blessing instead of the bread. Another thing to understand about coeliac is that it's not a life threatening allergy. For many it merely causes abdominal discomfort when dealing with things as small as a church wafer (this is why most people who are believed to have coeliac are undiagnosed). Most people who are gluten-free usually make some exceptions to their diets, usually for particularly delicious foods that they only have once a year, but church is also something they can make an exception for. When I go to church, I eat the bread when it's given to me, which admittedly isn't often. Maybe if I went to church every Sunday and had Eucharist every time I went there my opinion might change, but as far as I'm concerned, this has never bothered me.

[Neonivek]

I find this HILLARIOUS
As a Catholic you can literally turn your own spit into Holy Water.

You can't

From what I heard in an emergency you can perform an baptism on someone and use your spit for holy water.

[hector13]

From where did you hear that?

[wierd]

Is Gluten Free bread not real bread?

The bread used in the Eucharist in the Catholic Church must be made with, amongst other things, wheat flour. Wheat contains wheat gluten. Bread made from gluten free grains is still bread imo, but it's not the unleavened bread it must be for whatever doctrinal reasons, and the Catholic Church does not see them as bread. Super low gluten is ok tho

“Our consciousness of this is definitely being raised,” said Father Michael Flynn, executive director of the Secretariat of Divine Worship at the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, recently told Reuters. “The question that’s always kind of a balancing act is how much can you tweak bread and still have it be bread.”

And we have also heard the exact opposite that Muslims can drink alcohol but only if it is medically prescribed.
And judging by the HUGE variance in Muslim rules and doctrine I am convinced there are different regional differences between the Islamic groups... and even Sharia law.

Alcohol is always haram - Alcohol is allowed for medicine, is not a huge variance imo. Alcohol is bad mmmmkayyyy
And of course there's differences between the different Islamic groups, or else they wouldn't be different Islamic groups, they'd be the same :P
Don't understand why people think Islam is a homogeneous blob tbh. There's billions of em spread over 700 years of history, internecine conflict and exposure with other ideas. Sects, schisms and schools of thought branch out inevitably

Their minds cannot reconcile "Ancient world used flatbreads" with "When I think of bread, I think of the fluffy stuff I eat that has been processed with yeast."

Unleavened bread is flatbread m8
Unleavened explicitly means processed without yeast
You've gotten a bit confus m8

Since they cannot make this leap, the idea of using millet based flatbread- a very real thing in middle eastern cooking, and would have been a very real thing in ancient biblical periods, and right at home in the setting of the last supper (considering the meal was eaten at what is basically a diner, you would expect cheap and available fare. Millet is easier to produce in abundance than wheat, and would command a cheaper price at market, so millet based bread is quite likely to have been present at such a dinner)-- is something they cannot wrap their heads around.

You can't look at the Middle East today and use it to judge what it was like 2,000 years ago

This of course, is still all in stark contrast to the ACTUAL INTENT of the ritual of communion-- which is a strictly spiritual experience, where the "Transubstantiation" that happens is a strictly spiritual one.

This sounds more Evangelical tbh, for the Catholic Church holds that transubstantiation is the real presence of Christ in the bread and wine of the Eucharist. What you are referring to is consubstantiation, which is a doctrine largely held by various protestant sects (lot harder to generalize protestants since each church tends to do its own thing).

The act of eating a more biblically accurate flatbread as opposed to a processed and mass-manufactured wheat based Eucharist wafer might convey a deeper spiritual connection with the words uttered by the Messianic Christ at the last supper, and thus be more effective for communion as a physical component to a purely spiritual ritual.

There is no biblical evidence of Christ giving the apostles millet bread, this would not be a more biblically accurate flatbread

This is contrary of course to the central dogmas in Catholicism, where the church states that the lay parishoners are basically too stupid to have a direct spiritual connection with the divine, and thus need the guidance and interpretation of the clergy to organize and structure their rituals. (which is amusingly, why the Eucharist wafer is the way it is-- with its own branding, uniform shape, size, texture, etc. It has more in common with a potato chip than it does actual bread-- despite the potato chip being much tastier.)

Jesus Christ, calm down Napoleon ;]

In short, The catholic church is flipping full of itself, and tripping balls.  News at 11.

Avoid hasty judgement before one understands what is being judged

I find this HILLARIOUS
As a Catholic you can literally turn your own spit into Holy Water.

You can't

Moot anyway. Jewish flatbreads are most commonly made of Barley anyway, and have been since ancient times. Barley was the most important staple crop, NOT WHEAT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Israelite_cuisine#Barley

Barley is not explicitly gluten free-- but substantially lower in gluten than wheat. People with gluten allergy would better tolerate barley based eucharist than wheat based, but no-- DOGMA baby!

And the whole part where you tell me to calm down?  The part about how dogma is elevated internally, in contravention of "sola scriptura", and even against the direct teachings of the christ himself concerning the doctrines of men??

Yeah. No. Sorry. It's the truth, and it hurts. I know. But there it is.

(and yes, I know that "sola scriptura" is used as a somewhat pejorative term, ascribed to protestants who choose only to use the written teachings presented in the bible, over the approved practices of the roman catholic church-- despite the fact that if you actually READ the teachings presented in the bible, they outright tell you to establish a personal relationship with christ, NOT to use a mediator in confession, etc.)

[Loud Whispers]

Moot anyway. Jewish flatbreads are most commonly made of Barley anyway, and have been since ancient times. Barley was the most important staple crop, NOT WHEAT.

>Jewish flatbreads
>Catholic Church

Barley is not explicitly gluten free-- but substantially lower in gluten than wheat. People with gluten allergy would better tolerate barley based eucharist than wheat based, but no-- DOGMA baby!

m8 dogma is literally principles, principles held to be true and thus cannot be broken. That's all there is to it, religion without its religious doctrines is superstition

And the whole part where you tell me to calm down?  The part about how dogma is elevated internally, in contravention of "sola scriptura", and even against the direct teachings of the christ himself concerning the doctrines of men?? Yeah. No. Sorry. It's the truth, and it hurts. I know. But there it is.

wat
"Calm down Napoleon" is a joke, you're not showing me some great elaborate hurting truth because I'm not a catholic lmao, and the Catholics clearly do not view the Catholic Church as the doctrines of men, being the commandments of God following the founding of the Church by Christ and continued through succession by his apostles. It's worth noting that as Paul declares Christ is the sole mediator, he also says he is a Preacher and an Apostle, a teacher in faith and verity

(and yes, I know that "sola scriptura" is used as a somewhat pejorative term, ascribed to protestants who choose only to use the written teachings presented in the bible, over the approved practices of the roman catholic church-- despite the fact that if you actually READ the teachings presented in the bible, they outright tell you to establish a personal relationship with christ, NOT to use a mediator in confession, etc.)

To be a devil's advocate (haha), going sola scriptura runs the risk of kneecapping all the traditions accrued from the apostles' preaching, the sum total of all theologians' debates and efforts to clarify and reconcile Church doctrines, useful things like common sense (fundamentalists running off their holy books have caused a fair bit of havoc in recent times), and of course the sacred doctrine of scripture need not be exclusive to the mediations of the Church, dealing with the study and interpretation of a canon which can be difficult to understand, translate or at times, self-contradictory. Thus the Catholic argument that scripture is prime in sacred authority, but not alone in authority - for the successors of the apostles are legitimate mediators and interpreters of the faith's sacred canon

The theory that the Catholic Church are doing this because luls power is not really that convincing, because bread is not that powerful. IMO it's for religious reasons

[NJW2000]

The article didn't state that it was actually the pope's decision. I hope not, I have a vague and secular liking for Papa "You don't have to breed like rabbits" Francis.

[Loud Whispers]

"You don't have to breed like rabbits" Francis.

b-b-but that's heresy baka

[Neonivek]

Wow just researching Holy Water is difficult

Though apparently Catholicism has multiple kinds of Holy Water.

[wierd]

The origins of holy water are not that difficult really.

Said origins have some basis in the religious/doctrinal/dogmatic "cleanliness" practices of the old abrahamic parent religion. Before entering the temple, (a very clean place), people would ceremonially wash and purify themselves in special baths before entering the temple grounds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_washing_in_Judaism

This practice of using temple provided baths/water to cleanse one's self, both physically and spiritually (It does not matter if you are squeeky clean before entering the bath, the bath is a ritual, and symbolic as well as physically practical) presages the use of holy water for this purpose. 

It gains additional religious significance through the many allegories of the holy spirit itself being likened unto a fount of endless, indwelling water-- to purify, sanctify, and quench a parched and weary soul. (See jesus' message for the Samaritan woman at the well.)

Thus, holy water is a physical manifestation of this spiritually cleansing "indwelling water", given freely by the priest.

One can make arguments that holy water (in actual catholic tradition) requires clean, pure water, and cannot be defiled with filth, since the holy spirit it is an allegory of is pure in every possible sense-- However, this could also be countered with the teaching to Peter, where God the Father tells him that he can make *ANYTHING* clean. 

I would thus say, if you wanted to use it as DnD fodder, you can say that using less pure things requires much more faith, and thus requires strong religious ties to the deity in question, and requires a high level to perform.

That would be my advice anyway.

[Criptfeind]

In D&D there's a spell that makes stuff into holywater. I guess in theory you could cast it on spit. But then you'd have to gargle with 5 pounds of silver dust. Which probably will have at least some negative health effects.

[ChairmanPoo]

In nethack if you place water bottles on a temple and pray they become holy water.

[wierd]

ONLY if the altar is aligned!!

If you do that at an unaligned altar, you get curse water!

;P

[martinuzz]

The article didn't state that it was actually the pope's decision. I hope not, I have a vague and secular liking for Papa "You don't have to breed like rabbits" Francis.

Same, which is why it made me wtf.

According to my newspaper article, it was the Pope himself, who requested personally, in a letter to all bishops, to ban the gluten-free hosties that are already being traded and used from being used any longer, more specifically he ordered not to use them during the upcoming Eucharist celebrations.

Cardinal Robert Sarah did comment on the letter, saying that people with gluten-allergy will be allowed to eat gluten-low bread, but not gluten-free bread.

In the same letter, the Pope also states that the Blood of Jesus Christ, the wine used by priests, also needs to meet a certain standard. The wine has to be authentic, and made from grapes. For people with alcohol intolerance, it is allowed to replace the wine with a thick, non-fermented grape juice.
http://www.volkskrant.nl/buitenland/vaticaan-wil-geen-glutenvrije-hosties~a4505409/

[Neonivek]

In D&D there's a spell that makes stuff into holywater. I guess in theory you could cast it on spit. But then you'd have to gargle with 5 pounds of silver dust. Which probably will have at least some negative health effects.

Oddly enough the Silver is rather harmless. You could probably drink the Silver.

While there are some side effects of prolonged use of silver products and it being inhaled... A pure silver mouthwash isn't going to have any detrimental effects.

[Loud Whispers]

Oddly enough the Silver is rather harmless. You could probably drink the Silver.

While there are some side effects of prolonged use of silver products and it being inhaled... A pure silver mouthwash isn't going to have any detrimental effects.

Drinking molten silver is hardcore