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[SOLDIER First]

I mean, Gwyndolin is fairly popular with straight men.

...Despite also being male.

[TempAcc]

Them sweet, sweet traps, man.

[Arx]

Gwyndolin's exact gender is a matter of lore speculation.

[Neonivek]

Sooo here is my WTF...

Do people... seriously not know what censorship is?

I get the idea that people have this idea that censorship (that isn't beeping swear words) only exists systematically in a sort of book burning society.

That the ability to move elsewhere exonerates censorship to such an extent that it doesn't count as censorship.

WHAT THE FREEKEN HECK!

This is like saying "He isn't racist... did he physically assault them? No? Well there you go"

[wierd]

Neon-- there is the problem where one person's censorship, is another person's "hateful speech". (with the implication that there is somehow a right to not feel offended by the speech of others, and that this allows people to use the legal and penal systems to silence those messages they find offensive.)

EG, they are all too happy to censor somebody when they don't like what they are saying, but then weep bitter tears when they are themselves censored.  This hypocrisy sticks in my craw too. You cannot make people understand it though. (queue up the tired old petards about shouting fire in a movie theater, while I roll my eyes in contempt, as they systemically miss the point on purpose.)

[TempAcc]

Anyway, I turn my back on this thread for 8 hours and you guys go through discussions on spicy lubricants and furry porn.

I guess this is how God must've felt when he took a bathroom break and came back to find the hebrews having huge orgies and worshipping a golden bull.

[NJW2000]

More than one kind of snake under that skirt 


Looking for Gwyndolin/Priscilla fanart, as I'd imagine that would be a natural pairing (height, looks, weird anatomy, isolation from the rest of the world).

Just googling their names gets you porn. Suprisingly fast.
Tempted to look up Smough and Patches... probably better not.

[Neonivek]

Neon-- there is the problem where one person's censorship, is another person's "hateful speech".

EG, they are all too happy to censor somebody when they don't like what they are saying, but then weep bitter tears when they are themselves censored.  This hypocrisy sticks in my craw too. You cannot make people understand it though. (queue up the tired old petards about shouting fire in a movie theater, while I roll my eyes in contempt, as they systemically miss the point on purpose.)

I mean the majority of censorship... or rather... egregious censorship to narrow it... isn't nation wide book burning.

NOR is censorship required to directly censor.

For example if The Writer of Harry Potter had her book removed from libraries for being Satanic... everyone would agree that would be censorship. (well sort of... they might argue "No, you can still buy it in stores!")

Yet... if she wrote a book about math afterward (or previously... the timing doesn't matter)... and it was removed from libraries they would argue that it wasn't censorship because there is nothing wrong with the book itself.

Yeah because you can't censor a PERSON or by ASSOCIATION or SIMILARITIES.

[wierd]

The same thing happens there though-- the very same people who would be championing to remove Rowling's hypothetical math book, because of her association with writing fiction books that involve institutionalized witchcraft--- are THE VERY SAME PEOPLE who cry bitter, bitter tears about how their religious beliefs get them ostracized from certain circles, such as academia.  (because of its batshit crackpottery concerning denial of very empirical findings about ancient history, or science.)

They JUST DON'T GET IT that they are hypocrites.

They can only see the censorship when it is THEM being pushed out/silenced.


It never occurs to them that Rowling can write a perfectly reasonable, and good instruction manual on Mathematics, without involving magic and sorcery, in exactly the same way that they want to be seen as credible in being able to separate their personal faith with the rigor of the sciences, and present good papers.

So, they demonize hypothetical Rowling's work, while decrying why their own works get maligned.

The reality that if they stopped being dicks, people would be less apt to be dicks to them, never sinks in. they only see the censorship against themselves, not the kind they commit against others.

This is not just true of the christian conservative demographic, the left is also guilty-- see again, "hateful speech."  Really, it is anything that is "Does not want!!", where "Does not want!!" is rendered equivalent to "Has negative value, and anyone who disagrees is wrong on principle, and thus bad too!"

[Neonivek]

That is the WEIRDEST thing... it is almost a stunning change...

The Left... Liberals... are becoming more and more censorship and anti-free speech.

Which yeah parties change over time. Yet Free Speech used to be their sort of show piece and at times their almost championed cause (Unless I am mistaken). Ohh how they would mock the "petty conservatives" whenever they would complain about the latest demonstration.

This is like hearing that the Vegan Party is advocating beef because they need more members. "Ohh, you know you don't have to be vegan vegan... if you just cut back and eat beef every once and a while that will be fine"

[wierd]

I did not say their position was reasonable, I just said it sticks in my craw too, and that it was impossible to make them see their error.

[Neonivek]

I did not say their position was reasonable, I just said it sticks in my craw too, and that it was impossible to make them see their error.

Sorry, I was adding to what you said (I really should say "to add to what you said" more often... people on the internet rarely add onto people's comments)

Yes Irony abound!

[Frumple]

... y'know, y'all are going pretty hard on something I'm not sure I've ever seen actually happen. Books get challenged to hell and back and certain authors definitely get hit more, due to their preferred content, but actual blanket author bans is something I can't seem to find reference to in the last thirty, forty years or better -- and the last major call I can find was during the bloody nazi regime. Pornucopia or Bio of a Space Tyrant (i.e. Rape in Space, on Incest and Other Subjects) isn't exactly stopping Xanth books from being on the shelves, ferex. If rowling wrote a math book and it wasn't shit or had word problems related to figuring out the number of potential positions in a pagan orgy or somethin', basically no one would give a damn.

Author boycotts occasionally happen, but that has little to do with the actual book content (usually more to do with something the author did and subsequently not wanting to give the material support... which is fine -- that's speech, too.) and is roughly illegal in publicly funded libraries besides -- they've got room to keep some books out, but it has to be on content (or likelihood of usage, when space is of particular concern), not author. And private ones can do whatever the hell they want, by and large.

[NJW2000]

Really annoys me when people don't get the distinction between the "speech" in "freedom of speech" and "hate speech". "Speech" is not really counted as an action until it's slander, hate speech or incitement to violence, but in those cases it is an action.

Hence all the idiots defending hate speech on the basis of free speech... they don't understand that hate speech is about the effects it has/is likely to have on the rights of others. And that is effect is judged to be more detrimental than the loss of the right to "hate speech". Though that's in the UK, you can say what you like in America unless it goes against all the other laws restricting free speech (slander, defamation, incitement to violence, etc). We still get the idiots in the UK though.

[Arx]

Patches...

There's some awesome treasure, right down that hole...

* Arx reaches for the eyebleach.