Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Putnam]

see my sig

[Sergarr]

see my sig

I thought everyone has already got the point that communism (which is what this "Cathedral" essentially means) is a failed ideology and that supporting it means supporting failure, but I guess some people still don't appreciate the beauty of the capitalist system, even when everything around them has been created due to this very efficient system. In capitalism, private property rights are important. If you don't respect private property rights and try to "nationalize" stuff or "give it to the people", it doesn't work and everyone gets poorer as a result. Just look at the shit Venezuela is currently in.

[hops]

Whatever happened to good ol' donation? If a person wants to make sure they get paid for profiting off another person's game, they should be officially hired to make a DLC. Paid modding is just shameful both on the game developer and mod developer's part.

[Putnam]

i have had a donation link for years and never got any at all

hiring has a lot more baggage on top than just paying someone

see my sig

I thought everyone has already got the point that communism (which is what this "Cathedral" essentially means) is a failed ideology and that supporting it means supporting failure, but I guess some people still don't appreciate the beauty of the capitalist system, even when everything around them has been created due to this very efficient system. In capitalism, private property rights are important. If you don't respect private property rights and try to "nationalize" stuff or "give it to the people", it doesn't work and everyone gets poorer as a result. Just look at the shit Venezuela is currently in.

or... you get the elder scrolls modding community, or maybe even the dwarf fortress modding community

[Reelya]

Edit: the above statement should not be taken as approval of what amounts to cyber-terrorism, nor will I participate in any fashion in any such activity.  I reject paid modding according to my principles but have no personal stake in this issue, as I am quite willing to simply not use paid mods.

Whatever happened to good ol' donation? If a person wants to make sure they get paid for profiting off another person's game, they should be officially hired to make a DLC. Paid modding is just shameful both on the game developer and mod developer's part.

I don't think so. The modder isn't profiting off another person's game any more than e.g. an xBox game-maker is sneakily profiting off Microsoft's xBox platform. Both are a platform and the person wrote code which took time and it's the added value that people are willing to pay for.

I read Putnam's article about Cathedral and Parlor models of mod making, but i think those two views more easily map onto a community in which all mods are actually free. It makes more sense when no work can gain value that everyone works together to build little pieces. Those little pieces are more like patches however to make the base game shine more and gloss over faults. That stuff works well with a shared system.

I think there's a double standard too, people glorify the free mod makers then turn around and say "but i wouldn't  pay a cent for your shitty shit". But perhaps that's because what people can afford to make for free is limited, so we expect it to be limited and wonder why you'd pay for such tiny changes. But that's only true of current modding.

As for people who wouldn't pay for "paid Mods". Have you ever bought a DLC pack? That is a paid mod. Look at the kinds of DLC that sells and that's probably going to be the type of paid mod that sells as well. Most of the shit modders do is more like a "fan patch" and people don't pay for just patches, even official ones. So "paid mods" will evolve into "third party DLC packs" because that's what sells. Existing modders who are doing the "cathedral" style shared tweaks won't really be affected: most of them don't have the professional art skills to make DLC packs. it's a different skill set altogether.

[Tack]

I thought everyone has already got the point that communism is a failed ideology and that supporting it means supporting failure, but I guess some people still don't appreciate the beauty of the capitalist system, even when everything around them has been created due to this very efficient system.

Capitalism isn't a perfect system either. Great for quickly industrialising a country, but recall that it was also responsible for rampant slave/child labor and ecological devestation.
Nah, socialdemocratik is where it's at.

[Reelya]

I thought everyone has already got the point that communism is a failed ideology and that supporting it means supporting failure, but I guess some people still don't appreciate the beauty of the capitalist system, even when everything around them has been created due to this very efficient system.

Capitalism isn't a perfect system either. Great for quickly industrialising a country, but recall that it was also responsible for rampant slave/child labor and ecological devestation.
Nah, socialdemocratik is where it's at.

The dividing line isn't that wide. The USSR for example was the worst economy in Europe before WWI, but under the Soviets it grew to the world's second largest economy by around 1970, and only a whisker behind America in the Space Race / Technology. they had problems in the like last 15 years of their existence, but "lol Russia" doesn't explain how they grew that big from nothing in the first place.

The famous queues in Russia was a 1970s thing. They went a full 50 years of really fast economic growth before that, but then the oil crisis hit and inflation rose (as it did in America) and they got alarmed so they enacted a policy change which was to freeze prices on essential goods in order to quell price rises. Basically that one decision derailed things. Price freezes means things are arbitrarily cheap in the shop, so people hoard it. This drives black market prices higher, then people hoard even more to exploit that. So you get shortages, long queues (since they end up putting a per-customer limit on) and a black market with hyperinflationary prices.

But this same situation has happened in capitalist countries too, so it's not a specific things to Communism. Price freezes, specifically, which they did in a panic to control inflation are what tanked their economy, which was growing rapidly for about 50 years before that, even through WWII - when they suffered 20 million dead and vast industrial costs to the war. So Soviet system a failure? It seemed to do pretty well turning a backwards nation into a superpower the whole world feared. The mistakes they made were actually new policy changes in the 1970s which made a bad situation (the worldwide oil crisis) worse for them, specifically.

[Tack]

You haven't even mentioned the 'Great Leap Forward' yet either.

[Reelya]

The Great Leap Forward refers to industrialization in China. Which, sure, people do point out a few misteps, but without that China wouldn't be the scary superpower-in-making now.

Let's compare China and India. They both have the same population roughly.

India 1960 - $40 billion GDP (capitalist) => $1.8 trillion
China 1960, $60 billion GDP (communist) => $9.2 trillion

For all the "lol Mao dun fuked up" stuff, he actually seems to have done better than "yay India" which is supposedly an example for the free market.

The real error here is that people compare the trajectory of the USA to other nations. The USA came through both World Wars unscathed whereas all the other world powers were totally crushed either once or both times. Sure, you can say USA's "capitalist system" is what set them apart but that's BS. America didn't get bombed in WWII, and that had to do with geography not economics. In fact, America went full "communist" to win the war, with government control of industry, rationing of goods and even the big brother style "do your bit for Uncle Sam" posters. That's what created modern America. It's basically been nothing but downhill for America for the last 40 years or so, capitalist or not.

When you compare developing nations with capitalist/communist systems, results are far more mixed.

[Tack]

Oh hey no Mao dragged that country kicking and screaming into relevancy. We're both trying to argue the same side here.

[Reelya]

Oh yeah, I figure that after I posted the first time, so edited it to remove the "but" part.

Another thing that bugs me is this sort of racism. I heard this from a friend a few years back:

China can't make anything original, they can only imitate

But ... go back a few decades and sustitude "Japan" in there, same quote.

For example, people say planes like the Chengdu J20 are "clones" of a number of American designs despite the size and lines of the fusilage, and shape of the wings etc, being completely different. e.g. the best comparison says the J20 is a knock off of the F22, but here's a picture. Spot the similarity if you can.

They're ... both planes. That's about it. Pretty much everything about the J20 is vastly different to even the closest American-made fighter they try and compare it to.

For the J31 vs F35 it's a lot closer, since they're the same generation of tech and aimed at filling the same mission, but then you realize the J31 is a twin-engine fighter while the F35 is a single-engine fighter. You don't just "copy" a single engine fighter, and add another engine, change the wing shape, change the tail shape and expect it to fly. It is in fact a completely different plane:


In a few decades it will be "but Indians can't make anything original, they can only imitate ... American, Japan and Chinese products".

[Neonivek]

Ok so I have to use ad-blocker on quite a few sites because they are so liberal with ads that they often either make their website unusable or make the videos unwatchable,

But I've noticed something odd.

I actually often prefer to watch videos in small screen rather than full screen.

[Tack]

Same actually.

[ChairmanPoo]

see my sig

I thought everyone has already got the point that communism (which is what this "Cathedral" essentially means) is a failed ideology and that supporting it means supporting failure, but I guess some people still don't appreciate the beauty of the capitalist system, even when everything around them has been created due to this very efficient system. In capitalism, private property rights are important. If you don't respect private property rights and try to "nationalize" stuff or "give it to the people", it doesn't work and everyone gets poorer as a result. Just look at the shit Venezuela is currently in.

in Catalonia it worked very well with the POUM and the anarchists, until Stalin's sycophants burned it off lest it offended the more right-wing republicans.

[Avis-Mergulus]

Are you people seriously using state-scale economic systems (and poor examples thereof) to argue for or against a video game mod distribution framework? False equivalency much?