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[pisskop]

Its the kind of comedy called a 'parody'.


It doesnt have to have and one specific funny moment nor hinge upon a few points.  Instead the whole thing is tongue-in-cheeck so as to have its own value in pointing out some kind of absurdity or stereotype.


P:
If your joke fails to be funny, you simply need to rebrand it.

[Draignean]

Its the kind of comedy called a 'parody'

I'm aware, but good parody should mug the camera enough to let you know that it's parody. What I wrote felt more like Conservapedia, where you're in the uncanny valley of parody and you can't laugh because you know someone believes it.

EDIT: You speed editing bastard.

[Tawa]

No, that's pretty tongue-in-cheek, I feel. Lines like "we all know that horned helmets in norse culture was a fabrication of western historians in order to make them seem more akin to animals and thus an inferior race" are outlandish enough that I don't think anyone would mistakenly believe you're serious.

[TempAcc]

Historians just wanted an excuse to make a joke about horny vikings.
And possibly descan.

[Silverthrone]

I quite like fantasy. I adore it, in fact. I do not know why, but something in it stimulates me. But I do not have the foggiest idea of what is what about fantasy any more. "Low" and "High", and lest we forget, "Dark". It seems more like approval stamps, a vague idea that a certain set of fans can rally around (and gate off). I do believe it is time that I gave up. I know what I like, and it will do.

That said, the results can be rather interesting when different ideas of what fantasy ought to be come together. I remember when I still did some idle roleplaying in World of Warcraft, and how very hard and industrious some people worked to interpret and make it into a dark, grim, low and filthy sort of place. Well, before Game of Thrones rolled over and half-baked dynasty plotting became the norm. Nonetheless, it seemed so odd to me, trying to drag a fat cloud of vapid darkness into a setting where every stream is full of bright cartoon fish people.

[pisskop]

I have never watched or read any game of thrones material.

And I think I may be better off for it.

[Neonivek]

It made a LOT more sense to me back when it was just about magic...

Heck the origin of Low and High fantasy made a lot of sense...

That said, the results can be rather interesting when different ideas of what fantasy ought to be come together. I remember when I still did some idle roleplaying in World of Warcraft, and how very hard and industrious some people worked to interpret and make it into a dark, grim, low and filthy sort of place. Well, before Game of Thrones rolled over and half-baked dynasty plotting became the norm. Nonetheless, it seemed so odd to me, trying to drag a fat cloud of vapid darkness into a setting where every stream is full of bright cartoon fish people.

It helps that... World of Warcraft kind of is that "Vapid darkness" told in a shade of perpetual brightness.

Everyone sucks, everything sucks, and no one is happy

Not to mention that the everyman is basically a slave in the setting, the governments are corrupt and inefficient, and there are crime rings around every corner.

It just wasn't a setting that sort of... was brought low by the terribleness. If that makes any sense.

[pisskop]

Old Sci-fi fantasy was good stuff.

I remember some books about a race of people  who lived on a rock that was previously mined of most its metal, so that iron was the commodity and even bronze was hard to get.  Halfway through the book about druidic rituals and barbaric peoples and treehumpers *bamm* it turns out the ruling caste has a way to 'trade' products for metal, and the new goal of the protagonist and his chick is to destroy this means to bring peace natural order to the world.


P:

Not to mention that the everyman is basically a slave in the setting, the governments are corrupt and inefficient, and there are crime rings around every corner.

WoW is like the Saturday Morning Cartoons of video games.


PP:

Exhibit A:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWIMOf4hfjU

[Silverthrone]

It made a LOT more sense to me back when it was just about magic...

Heck the origin of Low and High fantasy made a lot of sense...

That said, the results can be rather interesting when different ideas of what fantasy ought to be come together. I remember when I still did some idle roleplaying in World of Warcraft, and how very hard and industrious some people worked to interpret and make it into a dark, grim, low and filthy sort of place. Well, before Game of Thrones rolled over and half-baked dynasty plotting became the norm. Nonetheless, it seemed so odd to me, trying to drag a fat cloud of vapid darkness into a setting where every stream is full of bright cartoon fish people.

It helps that... World of Warcraft kind of is that "Vapid darkness" told in a shade of perpetual brightness.

Everyone sucks, everything sucks, and no one is happy

Not to mention that the everyman is basically a slave in the setting, the governments are corrupt and inefficient, and there are crime rings around every corner.

It just wasn't a setting that sort of... was brought low by the terribleness. If that makes any sense.

I... Really, really, reaaally do not see that. At all. I suppose it is an individual question, of course. Half the work of building a setting is in the beholder.

The reason why it seemed like such a clash to me whas the oddity of a very simple and colourful fairy-tale land being man-handled into the next Warhammer. It just seemed odd, even though part of that oddity was no doubt in part of my own interpretation of things: a basic and simple adventure land, with no complexity to speak of but enough charm to fill its place. No one had their limbs smashed and left to die on a wagon wheel in Warcraft (at least lot outside of the villain's own keeps), since it would just not be in tone, and that is why the Grimderp era rather clashed with it.

[Neonivek]

It is because it is hidden in its "Gloriousness" Silverthrone.

It is a lot like Advance Wars except the dissonance isn't intentional (It is the joke of Advance Wars)

The fact that the plight of the peasants isn't given more focus is because OMG! THAT KNIGHT IS GLORIOUS! The fact that Elves are basically permanently messed over isn't given a lot of focus because "Dang that Blood Elf sorcerer is amazing!" The fact that Orcs were oppressed for generations and became slaves for two entirely different overlords is glossed over for OOHH THEY AWESOME! and the fact that they have literal suicide bombers is BOOM!

Basically everything terrible in that setting still exists but it is painted over... Like a government painting their poor district in bright colors to console the tourists

And this is ignoring that World of Warcraft takes place basically during the last few moments before the apocalypse is going to occur that will likely doom their world and they cannot stop it due to how their society is structured.

OR the fact that their gods are lies and demons whisper into their ears.

[Silverthrone]

It is because it is hidden in its "Gloriousness" Silverthrone.

It is a lot like Advance Wars except the dissonance isn't intentional (It is the joke of Advance Wars)

The fact that the plight of the peasants isn't given more focus is because OMG! THAT KNIGHT IS GLORIOUS! The fact that Elves are basically permanently messed over isn't given a lot of focus because "Dang that Blood Elf sorcerer is amazing!" The fact that Orcs were oppressed for generations and became slaves for two entirely different overlords is glossed over for OOHH THEY AWESOME! and the fact that they have literal suicide bombers is BOOM!

Basically everything terrible in that setting still exists but it is painted over... Like a government painting their poor district in bright colors to console the tourists

And this is ignoring that World of Warcraft takes place basically during the last few moments before the apocalypse is going to occur that will likely doom their world and they cannot stop it due to how their society is structured.

OR the fact that their gods are lies and demons whisper into their ears.

But then again, does the Warcraft writers have a particular obligation to be realistic and confrontative about every detail, when a glorified, heroic and rather shallow setting is the one they want to build? Depth has never been their main consideration (and by God, does it show sometimes), particularly not at the expense of a fancy they might have had. Yes, apocalyptic villains and demonic invasions and attempts at world-shattering seems to happen more or less anually in Azeroth, but they would never succeed, for it is not that sort of setting. The heroes will put a stop to it (and no doubt raise one million implications in the doing if one cares to look for them).

It is rather obvious that the Warcraft setting falls apart entirely if closely examined, but I do not think it was ever built for close examination. Indeed, I think many attempts at "re-writing" the setting (such as for custom RP servers or for fan fiction) tends to do precisely that, and while they might be more realistic and co-hesive for it, they will also have lost that strange, silly little spark in the process.

[Neonivek]

The setting doesn't fall apart and it isn't meant to be overlooked either.

The importance is tone. World of Warcraft isn't given a dark and dreary tone and the events often do not unfold in a dark and dreary way.

The reason why "everything sucks" is because of the narrative it is trying to weave which is about heroes rising above their surroundings and creating the obstacles and challenges they might face. Well ok... it is because Warcraft started off as a series without anyone really being good guys or bad guys so to speak, at least as a faction. Warcraft 3 played with the idea and made everyone the good guy (And World of Warcraft took the last remaining "Certainly not a good guy" and made them good guys).

While World of Warcraft certainly plays with that theme and has created "Good guy factions" who are as pure as the driven snow (but Blizzard doesn't know how to write cohesive stories if their lives depended on it) they still FOR THE MOST PART kept the idea that no one is the good guy for at least most of the factions that weren't invented.

Think of it like the first Harry Potter book... A lot of the darker elements of Harry Potter was there in the very first book. Yet the book wasn't bogged down by that fact.

Look at Teen Titans... 3/5ths of the backstories are tragic and haunt them... Yet the show isn't about constantly bombarding you with that.

[Lord Shonus]

Well ok... it is because Warcraft started off as a series without anyone really being good guys or bad guys so to speak, at least as a faction.

The original WarCraft was very much "Good humans" vs "Pure Evil Orcs". Some ambiguity started creeping in in WarCraft 2, but (IIRC) it wasn't until WarCraft 3 that it really became clear that it was really a Grey vs Grey conflict.

[Neonivek]

Well ok... it is because Warcraft started off as a series without anyone really being good guys or bad guys so to speak, at least as a faction.

The original WarCraft was very much "Good humans" vs "Pure Evil Orcs". Some ambiguity started creeping in in WarCraft 2, but (IIRC) it wasn't until WarCraft 3 that it really became clear that it was really a Grey vs Grey conflict.

I didn't mean a "Grey versus Grey" so much that... No one was "pure". The Humans weren't a coalition of goodness.

The Orcs were the aggressors for Warcraft 1 and half of Warcraft 2.

Warcraft 3 actually undid ambiguity from Warcraft 2 (because once again... Blizzard writing at work...) and any aspect of good storytelling was lifted from earlier projects.

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Also everyone remember

Helmets are USELESS in fiction. In fact, they are less than useless. It is actually easier to knockout someone wearing a helmet, even a thick biker like helmet, then someone without one.

[Silverthrone]

Err... I am not entirely sure where we are. No, Warcraft does not have a dark a dreary tone, for it is not that sort of place. That is why it seemed so odd when a lot of roleplayers attempted to impose one. It is not particularly difficult, of course, there is plenty of material to work with. My point is, its heroic fantasy world would fall apart if examined with an eye for the more grim things, and with an eye for what would and would not work as a way to run a society. (Indeed, with some counting, it would no doubt be possible to prove that not even the population modelled in the game could survive on so few farms and hunting sites, et cetera) No particular care for those things were taken when the setting was written (or rather, continues to be written), since it is a stage for adventure and fantasy war stories first and foremost.

That is about what I can really say, for I do not quite know where we are. I... Suppose I agree that dark elements, not bombared on audience but present is a good idea, but I did not think I gave the impression that I thought it was not. It is when they are imposed carelessly and for their own sake in different habitats of tone that things begin to go awry.

Helmets being more of a hinderance than anything in fiction, however, now I am on the same page. It is quite odd. And if it is a model that masks your face entirely, then it is certain death to wear it.