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[Neonivek]

Bearing in mind this was on telly in the '60s, when it was bizarre to have a black woman in a role that was not a servant, and then that omginterracialromance.

Which is honestly the oddest thing ever given it was... well.. a forced kiss not only completely devoid of romance... but meant to be sickening.

and honestly it was kind of a lousy episode anyway.

This is ignoring how the show typically handled women as it was. Lets just say while one COULD argue "progressive for its time" they couldn't even argue acceptable for the 80s.

[Eric Blank]

It wouldn't be the only thing the old series pulled that was never copied... Such as the fact that the environmental controls could... apparently create weather on the ship.

Create condensation on the ceiling, watch it drip on their heads. Evaporate condensation into fog filling the halls. Fuck up the electronics and lightning everywhere? Ice it all. Turn the vent fans up to ludicrous speed and yell really loud.

I dunno, being a spacecraft with full life support I expect it to be able to control temperature, circulation, humidity. I would also expect each compartment to be controllable individually, so you could accommodate alien species. Assuming the hardware is robust enough and the software can be played with, and your redshirts could wish they had red raincoats. Like, tornadoes and serious rain or hail is a bit too much to expect, but "weather" is effectively the life support systems job.

[Lord Shonus]

Mmrgh, you know what, if you two hate voyager that's fine.  You've been around long enough to give it a shot.  Different strokes.

Voyager had a spectacular premise, a lot of really good ideas, and abysmal execution. The heights of Voyager count among the greatest bits of the series, but the lows make "Spock's Brain" look like a masterpiece by comparison.

As for the TOS statement that "Women can't be starship captains", that came from a body-stealing lunatic, and is easy to dismiss on that basis.

The Prime Directive barely existed in TOS

It is more that the TOS era wasn't riding is soapbox and crying tears of blood about the Prime Directive all the time... all while butchering the point of the prime directive.

They mention it plenty of times.

The Prime Directive was very weak in TOS compared to TNG and later. At least half of Kirk's missions (as in, what he was sent in to do) would have been verboten on later shows. A law that requires you to watch an entire species go extinct because their planet is dying just because they don't have star travel would never have allowed many of the events of TOS (the one we were discussing in particular - Picard would never have been allowed to even talk to Sigma Iotia II). My own fan-theory was that by the time of TNG Starfleet had overreacted to Kirk's shenanigans and made the PD more and more restrictive to prevent repeats.

[Rolan7]

Bearing in mind this was on telly in the '60s, when it was bizarre to have a black woman in a role that was not a servant, and then that omginterracialromance.

Huh, I didn't actually know they kissed.  I guess I was partially unfair to the new "Star Trek" original series reimaginings, then.

But yeah, Uhura's role was pretty big.  Not just for the time, but period...  She was bridge crew.  Switchboard operation may have been a traditionally female role, but it was a huge deal.

[Neonivek]

At least half of Kirk's missions (as in, what he was sent in to do) would have been verboten on later shows.

Most of the time he gets involved because someone else got involved. The Mafia Planet, Communist Planet are two examples. (Peaceful Planet, and the other peaceful planet being two more)

Other times it is because of a much more serious problem such as the Women planet... Or the OTHER women planet... Or the third women planet.

Honestly I am not being vague for vague sake... I am just amazed that there are basically three separate instances of a woman themed planet in the original series and they all involve a very similar set up.

[TempAcc]

I can just imagine starfleet command reviewing kirk's logs and going "what the infinite fuck is this what starfleet captains actualy do on the field?".

[Neonivek]

I can just imagine starfleet command reviewing kirk's logs and going "what the infinite fuck is this what starfleet captains actualy do on the field?".

Honestly the "Women aren't allowed to be Starfleet Captains" would actually make perfect sense in the series if you just... you know... remember how women are usually depicted. How many times have they been willing to screw over everyone because they are overemotional?

I mean Uhura had all her memories completely erased... and it apparently didn't matter. That is how much her character and job matters.

I mean three different planets of women... and they are all stupid idiots

[Flying Dice]

Bearing in mind this was on telly in the '60s, when it was bizarre to have a black woman in a role that was not a servant, and then that omginterracialromance.

Huh, I didn't actually know they kissed.  I guess I was partially unfair to the new "Star Trek" original series reimaginings, then.

But yeah, Uhura's role was pretty big.  Not just for the time, but period...  She was bridge crew.  Switchboard operation may have been a traditionally female role, but it was a huge deal.

The whole bridge crew like that, Roddenberry was really pushing a different vision of the future. The command crew had a black woman, a Russian, a fabulously gay man (even if people didn't notice at the time), and an alien. And remember, there were even other female bridge crew in the rotating slots (who were presumably ensigns or something) at the tactical and miscellaneous stations.

[Neonivek]

at the tactical and miscellaneous stations.

But not doctors, engineers, or security

Well ok... Security I can at least justify because well... there is NO WAY you could have a man hitting a woman... What was that? Kirk hits women all the time? And typically after seducing them?

Though there was one woman who I think was a scientist... but she might have only been a diplomat... (I am also ignoring one movie)

[Rolan7]

I can just imagine starfleet command reviewing kirk's logs and going "what the infinite fuck is this what starfleet captains actualy do on the field?".

Star Trek Generations was already pretty funny (good thing, because it was otherwise tripe) but it would have even better if Picard had literally slapped and told Kirk to stop being a egotistical manchild.  Though I suppose the diplomacy we got was more in character... technically.  Picard certainly goes off on people sometimes, would have been great.

Neo...  Actually I don't know, I don't like the original series and haven't watched it in years.  Maybe it is sexist as all hell, I actually don't care.
I know Kirk loves all the local alien womens but I just remember it being pretty progressive for the 60's, when I saw it in the 90's.

Bearing in mind this was on telly in the '60s, when it was bizarre to have a black woman in a role that was not a servant, and then that omginterracialromance.

Huh, I didn't actually know they kissed.  I guess I was partially unfair to the new "Star Trek" original series reimaginings, then.

But yeah, Uhura's role was pretty big.  Not just for the time, but period...  She was bridge crew.  Switchboard operation may have been a traditionally female role, but it was a huge deal.

The whole bridge crew like that, Roddenberry was really pushing a different vision of the future. The command crew had a black woman, a Russian, a fabulously gay man (even if people didn't notice at the time), and an alien. And remember, there were even other female bridge crew in the rotating slots (who were presumably ensigns or something) at the tactical and miscellaneous stations.

Exactly!
Except that Sulu wasn't declared gay, until WAAAAY later and arguably uncanonically, and George Takei denies it.
Though obviously the actor was gay, yes.  Fabulously.

[Neonivek]

I know Kirk loves all the local alien womens

Honestly everytime people say this I feel like they watched an entirely different show.

He doesn't get it on as much as people suggests and when he does seduce... it typically ends with him abusing someone.

[Lord Shonus]

I mean Uhura had all her memories completely erased... and it apparently didn't matter. That is how much her character and job matters.

She was also back at a university level of education within a week, and spoke perfect Swahili immediately after Nomad "wiped" her "knowledge banks". Either Uhura has an intellectual capacity that dwarfs Einstein, or else Nomad simply messed up her capacity to access her memories. The novelization of that episode (Blish often worked from earlier versions of the scripts before they were cut for time or dumbed-down slightly, and only admitted to making one deliberate (and authorized) change) outright states that none of her knowledge was damaged, but the neural pathways to that knowledge were scrambled.


Also, women scientists were pretty common in TOS, and Kirk's "abuse" is much rarer (and usually sensible in context) than reputation suggests.

I mean three different planets of women... and they are all stupid idiots

Unless you mean "Mudd's Women", "I, Mudd", and "Catspaw", you've lost me completely. If those are the three you mean, then

[Flying Dice]

I can just imagine starfleet command reviewing kirk's logs and going "what the infinite fuck is this what starfleet captains actualy do on the field?".

Star Trek Generations was already pretty funny (good thing, because it was otherwise tripe) but it would have even better if Picard had literally slapped and told Kirk to stop being a egotistical manchild.  Though I suppose the diplomacy we got was more in character... technically.  Picard certainly goes off on people sometimes, would have been great.

Neo...  Actually I don't know, I don't like the original series and haven't watched it in years.  Maybe it is sexist as all hell, I actually don't care.
I know Kirk loves all the local alien womens but I just remember it being pretty progressive for the 60's, when I saw it in the 90's.

Bearing in mind this was on telly in the '60s, when it was bizarre to have a black woman in a role that was not a servant, and then that omginterracialromance.

Huh, I didn't actually know they kissed.  I guess I was partially unfair to the new "Star Trek" original series reimaginings, then.

But yeah, Uhura's role was pretty big.  Not just for the time, but period...  She was bridge crew.  Switchboard operation may have been a traditionally female role, but it was a huge deal.

The whole bridge crew like that, Roddenberry was really pushing a different vision of the future. The command crew had a black woman, a Russian, a fabulously gay man (even if people didn't notice at the time), and an alien. And remember, there were even other female bridge crew in the rotating slots (who were presumably ensigns or something) at the tactical and miscellaneous stations.

Exactly!
Except that Sulu wasn't declared gay, until WAAAAY later and arguably uncanonically, and George Takei denies it.
Though obviously the actor was gay, yes.  Fabulously.

Honestly Kirk and the vaseline-lens soft-focus romance was too cheesy to be taken seriously even back then.

And yeah, I was just kidding about Sulu, since that's Takei's interpretation of his character. Even with the events of "The Naked Time".

[Neonivek]

Unless you mean "Mudd's Women", "I, Mudd", and "Catspaw", you've lost me completely. If those are the three you mean, then

Mudd's Women is one... Then there is Spock's Brain... Then there is the one about a asteroid ship I forget the name of.

[Yoink]

My WTF is that this derail is still ongoing.