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[Neonivek]

You could call that kind of representation Tokenism, but gender, ethnic, and identity representation is actually a problem in media that needs to be addressed... and when you're dealing with old media, often that means changing things. Even if it's only a superficial change, it's still important. Slight tangent, but for the sake of perspective: Linko

Well there are plenty of shows that pulled it off, so it isn't that it cannot be addressed. (Just see Spetacular Spider-Man for one example or Annie for another... Yes I know Annie was bad, but that wasn't one of its problems)

As I said I kind of found out why it bugs me. It is the insistence that a pre-existing character MUST be tokenized for the sake of society.

They aren't just playing to the actors they have, creating a twist on the character, doing blind auditions, just wanted to do a different race, expanding the character or anything.

It is the exact same thing happened with Female representation and Zelda/Peach. Where I would have loved games where they kick butt and take names and where they are playable and even spoke out about it. Yet the moment the narrative became "But they MUST become butt kickers the likes no one has ever seen because otherwise their characters are Sexist/ for the sake of fixing sexism" is when I found issue.

I mean I get that there is an implication that "White person = racist" and "Women who doesn't kick butt = Sexist" but I don't think that is what is REALLY bugging me... So what is bugging me about "This thing MUST change to serve the needs of the day" so much.

I really need perspective... I should ask some smarter / More geared people.

[smjjames]

It's also worth noting that those are things which had examples in nature. Cell organelles do actually interact with light, and are as such visible. Nitrogen fixing is a thing, legumes do it all the time.

I'm mostly thinking in terms of FTL, perpetual motion, and the like.

And of course, I'm not saying science can't be wrong. :V

Well, we don't fully understand physics yet. macrophysics (ie. everything larger than a small molecule) we have a solid understanding on (though don't yet know everything there is to know about it), but when it comes to quantum physics, we're still learning.

For example, take whatever the heck is going on with the EM engines. They have yet to do a controlled test or reproduce the results though AFAIK.

[TheBiggerFish]

You could call that kind of representation Tokenism, but gender, ethnic, and identity representation is actually a problem in media that needs to be addressed... and when you're dealing with old media, often that means changing things. Even if it's only a superficial change, it's still important. Slight tangent, but for the sake of perspective: Linko

Well there are plenty of shows that pulled it off, so it isn't that it cannot be addressed. (Just see Spetacular Spider-Man for one example or Annie for another... Yes I know Annie was bad, but that wasn't one of its problems)

As I said I kind of found out why it bugs me. It is the insistence that a pre-existing character MUST be tokenized for the sake of society.

They aren't just playing to the actors they have, creating a twist on the character, doing blind auditions, just wanted to do a different race, expanding the character or anything.

It is the exact same thing happened with Female representation and Zelda/Peach. Where I would have loved games where they kick butt and take names and where they are playable and even spoke out about it. Yet the moment the narrative became "But they MUST become butt kickers the likes no one has ever seen because otherwise their characters are Sexist/ for the sake of fixing sexism" is when I found issue.

I mean I get that there is an implication that "White person = racist" and "Women who doesn't kick butt = Sexist" but I don't think that is what is REALLY bugging me... So what is bugging me about "This thing MUST change to serve the needs of the day" so much.

I really need perspective... I should ask some smarter / More geared people.

Maybe, you're against changing something for the sake of changing it, versus changing something for the sake of seeing the impact it has?

[Rolepgeek]

It's also worth noting that those are things which had examples in nature. Cell organelles do actually interact with light, and are as such visible. Nitrogen fixing is a thing, legumes do it all the time.

I'm mostly thinking in terms of FTL, perpetual motion, and the like.

And of course, I'm not saying science can't be wrong. :V

Well, we don't fully understand physics yet. macrophysics (ie. everything larger than a small molecule) we have a solid understanding on (though don't yet know everything there is to know about it), but when it comes to quantum physics, we're still learning.

For example, take whatever the heck is going on with the EM engines. They have yet to do a controlled test or reproduce the results though AFAIK.

Looking at the reddit thread comments about the published results, it looks like whatever displacement there was was more likely from thermal expansion than thrust (as in, given what they do to set up and establish what would be necessary to show it's thrust, it's probably not thrust), and in general the test was fairly sloppy.

[Solifuge]

-snip-

-snop-
I really need perspective... I should ask some smarter / More geared people.

I don't think that was intended as a swipe, but it sorta struck me as one. Gonna chalk it up to a misinterpretation on my part, for now.

I'm not an expert, though I'm not sure who is for this? However, as a member of a handful of semi-marginalized/minority groups, I can say that media that changes a character just for the sake of better representing some of the categories I find myself within, when done without unintentionally parodying or otherwise ragging on said groups? That feels nice to me. I've got 0% problem with that.

Who does it harm, if anyone?

[Egan_BW]

They changed it, so it's bad.

[Solifuge]

Hey now, that was a serious question. I think it's important to be fair and consider it, especially since I've only got my perspective to work off of. And I've certainly got my own biases and etc.

[Akura]

Internet has been randomly stopping several times this morning, requiring flipping the switch to get it going again.

[Neonivek]

I don't think that was intended as a swipe, but it sorta struck me as one. Gonna chalk it up to a misinterpretation on my part, for now.

Naw, I mean people trained in this topic.

[Tiruin]

I don't think that was intended as a swipe, but it sorta struck me as one. Gonna chalk it up to a misinterpretation on my part, for now.

Naw, I mean people trained in this topic.

The topic about a popular/past character being changed in certain physical/behavioral characteristics or...?
Because that's a lot of ground to cover as it'll be dealing with a large social phenomenon and differing cultures Or at least how exposed people were to things, and especially context of the character.

Sifted through my notes in checking up for my last semester coming soon and I find myself sifting through nostalgia of years of experiences with people and otherwise--especially when I've began re-reading all my own notes in cognition.

Love how memory and experience makes up a lot of living.
But I can't believe I've been misspelling sanguinal and sanguineal all this time. :I

[Neonivek]

More about creating a narrative for race/sex relations by changing fiction and why it is good and bad.

A sort of fictional revisionism

Looking for a larger picture that I can more fully understand. I don't understand the full picture of why we must do these things... I don't understand the full picture of why we shouldn't do these things. These aren't even all the questions.

I want to have my thoughts collected and to understand the debate.

Because I could look for common responses to the topic but they tend to be... fairly limited. People who know their side but aren't really well versed in it.

----

Also how the heck did the west get their own Videogame Boss themes Pop band before Japan got an anime of exactly that?

[Kot]

What if everything in North Korean propaganda is true and we're the ones lied to?

[Neonivek]

Also WHAT THE FREEKEN HECK is with these "Pseudo Nolan North" DC movies and wanting their heroes to kill?

I mean HOLY GOODNESS does Batman have an impressive bodycount.

Seriously DC Cinematic Universe STOP IT! You do NOT need to have a hero kill to show why they shouldn't kill... it is stupid...

I mean... it isn't like the fact that Batman was gunned down isn't reason ENOUGH that Batman wouldn't machine gun down crooks but apparently not.

[IcyTea31]

I've realized I have a little tic: whenever I talk about time, whether it be seconds or weeks, I instinctively raise my left wrist to look at it. This, despite the fact that I haven't worn a watch in years. Mentioning it does make for a nice gag to break up awkward tension, though.

[LordBaal]

DC in general sucks in movies. The only ones that I held in high regard are the Nolan trilogy. They wasted to hell the chance of jump starting the big screen franchise using their almost good tv series (arrow and flash, the rest are utter crap). No, they decided to separate them completely. For pete's sake they are trying to copy marvel and even fail in copying them right.

There's a lot of issues with what you say, it's not only the trigger happy, fat batman. It's the fact they in a few seconds demolished what three movies and years of work took to build up.