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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14469109 times)

birdy51

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113430 on: November 13, 2016, 06:09:23 pm »

Ironically, Trump has sort of been openly reprimanded by the Pope, which leads me to believe Catholics would be first on his list of religions to bash of it weren't for Islam.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113431 on: November 13, 2016, 06:09:37 pm »

Sometimes I wonder if some politicians are actively anti-environmental. Heh, imagine one day, there's a severe hurricane, and a politician gathers support to dump oil and toxic waste in the sea as retribution. Not likely, but regrettably not unlikely enough.
Some absolutely are, straight up explicitly, bought and paid. One of trump's advisors or somethin' used to be a tobacco lobbyist (denying that tobacco caused harm) that transitioned into doing the same sort of work for the energy industry (denying any and every thing climate change), just as an example. There very much are politicians, in the US and elsewhere, that are actively working to destroy the environment of the areas they potentially oversee, are aware of the problems they are causing, and just straight up don't give a damn.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113432 on: November 13, 2016, 06:11:08 pm »

@birdy:I wish more had listened to Pope Francis on that one.  Of course that doesn't get any airtime whatsoever grumblegrumblegrumble soundbitemediasucks.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113433 on: November 13, 2016, 06:13:14 pm »

Eh, it probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference in the US, if folks had. Might have actually pushed more people R. Still plenty of enmity among stateside christians towards catholicism and specifically the pope. Including stateside catholics.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113434 on: November 13, 2016, 06:13:49 pm »

Eh, it probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference in the US, if folks had. Might have actually pushed more people R. Still plenty of enmity among stateside christians towards catholicism and specifically the pope. Including stateside catholics.
Well that's surprising.

Darn anecdotal evidence...
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Silverthrone

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113435 on: November 13, 2016, 06:15:24 pm »

Silverthrone: If you're in Europe, Trump is basically wink wink nod nodding at Putin that he can "invade" whoever he likes and the US will just ignore it. This, to me, is not a good thing. (Not that Obama has been willing to actually try to stop him so far, but I have no doubt Hillary would have)

It isn't a good thing, no. It will necessitate rebuilding our own defensive capabilities, which will be expensive, unpopular but unavoidable. But, I think that the U.S. wouldn't be prepared to pay for Europe's defence forevermore, as it were. It's a severe re-adjustment, but it's better it happens early.

(Of course, Trump does talk a lot. Despite what he has expressed, there are likely still things they'd rather the Russians didn't do.)


Don't forget the cost of the parapets, the hoardings, the ammunition stores, and manning the trebuchets and ballistae. Although you could probably get some back from the tourism, and Medieval Times might work with us; it'd be pretty lucrative for them, after all, and borders are great places for gift shops.

Hmm. It also depends on how much efficient magma pumps costs these days. They might give some trickleback through geoheat, though.

There has been a lot of talk about Trump's lukewarm relation to NATO recently. Honestly, it might be for the best. It's well about time we saw to our own defences, and it just isn't fair expecting the U.S. to do all the work and foot the most of the bill. Him pulling back on NATO isn't a danger to global security, that is the effect of expecting Uncle Sam to do most of the work. Well, it sort of is a threat to global security the way we like it, but it is self-inflicted, if anything. Both the Pentagon and the White House has been complaining about that for years, it seems so strange that no one in the European high commands thought to listen to it.

Because for most nations, against the prime threat of Russia spending more on defence wouldn't really pull dividends, most modern wars haven't required a large military for European nations, and times are hard so it's hard to get more funding for anything.

Take Belgium. It spends something like .92% of gdp on it's military - that's 3.25 billion dollars off the top of my head.
Russia spends 65+ billion dollars on it's military.
Even if a lot of these smaller nations, they'd never be even slightly capable of matching the russian war machine in money, men or materials.

In these hard financial times, politicians don't want to expand the military for something unlikely to be really used - most conflicts have been more peacekeeping roles, part of a coalition - so even if the various European high commands heard, there's not much they can do to expand. People want hospitals and working trains more than they want more soldiers, because being sick or late to work is a much more pressing issue than maybe russia.

At least, that's my thoughts on it.


Well, true. You're right, it'd be incredibly difficult, and probably a lot more politically painful than just accepting the odd little tribute gesture to the Russians, if need be. But it's mainly the tone of it that WTFs me, that sense of Trump suddenly betraying NATO and Europe, when the signs have been there for years.

Sometimes I wonder if some politicians are actively anti-environmental. Heh, imagine one day, there's a severe hurricane, and a politician gathers support to dump oil and toxic waste in the sea as retribution. Not likely, but regrettably not unlikely enough.
Some absolutely are, straight up explicitly, bought and paid. One of trump's advisors or somethin' used to be a tobacco lobbyist (denying that tobacco caused harm) that transitioned into doing the same sort of work for the energy industry (denying any and every thing climate change), just as an example. There very much are politicians, in the US and elsewhere, that are actively working to destroy the environment of the areas they potentially oversee, are aware of the problems they are causing, and just straight up don't give a damn.

I like to think they had a nasty encounter with poison ivy in their childhoods, and swore a dark oath of revenge on the planet's ecology. I mean, at a certain point, they could still make a pretty damn good bit of money while also realigning in a more substainable direction, but they don't. Like it's a matter of principle.

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Shadowlord

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113436 on: November 13, 2016, 06:19:23 pm »

Good God, Caroline, your parents are dense:(
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113437 on: November 13, 2016, 06:20:35 pm »

Re:environment: Well, either way, we as consumers really need to push higher standards...

Like, switch energy suppliers?  I think we can do that on a lot of utilities...

The one good thing to come out of a Trump presidency might be citizen activism.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113438 on: November 13, 2016, 06:23:11 pm »

We don't need citizen fucking activism, we need the state to stop propping up the piece-by-piece devastation of our planet.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113439 on: November 13, 2016, 06:24:13 pm »

Natural monopolies, tbf. There's only sometimes the option of switching suppliers, and even then it's only so likely they're not all just as bad in your area.

Though fie on you, MSH. That is indeed what we need but everything helps to some extent, and activism in particular makes it that much more likely the state actually does that.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 06:25:53 pm by Frumple »
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113440 on: November 13, 2016, 06:24:56 pm »

Natural monopolies, tbf. There's only sometimes the option of switching suppliers, and even then it's only so likely they're not all just as bad in your area.
I know.  But those of us who can, should.
We don't need citizen fucking activism, we need the state to stop propping up the piece-by-piece devastation of our planet.
If we can't have that, then we need to do something.
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GiglameshDespair

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113441 on: November 13, 2016, 06:38:20 pm »

Well, true. You're right, it'd be incredibly difficult, and probably a lot more politically painful than just accepting the odd little tribute gesture to the Russians, if need be. But it's mainly the tone of it that WTFs me, that sense of Trump suddenly betraying NATO and Europe, when the signs have been there for years.

"Tribute gesture" is an odd way to say "country". :P
After all, Russia did invade and annex part of a sovereign nation recently. That having happened, a president no one expected to win coming out of left field, praising Putin and pulling back from NATO, is absolutely and rightfully unexpected.

Hillary was the clear winner, and she had a strong stance against Russia (Obama also had a stance against russia, though softer), but she lost. If she'd won, do you think American input into NATO would have decreased?

It does feel like a betrayal. Russia had always been the enemy, and now Trump is calling Putin a stand-up bloke.
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Sergarr

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113442 on: November 13, 2016, 06:48:01 pm »

Russia had always been the enemy
Oi. Even in the 90s-early 00s?
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Silverthrone

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113443 on: November 13, 2016, 07:00:14 pm »

Well, true. You're right, it'd be incredibly difficult, and probably a lot more politically painful than just accepting the odd little tribute gesture to the Russians, if need be. But it's mainly the tone of it that WTFs me, that sense of Trump suddenly betraying NATO and Europe, when the signs have been there for years.

"Tribute gesture" is an odd way to say "country". :P
After all, Russia did invade and annex part of a sovereign nation recently. That having happened, a president no one expected to win coming out of left field, praising Putin and pulling back from NATO, is absolutely and rightfully unexpected.

Hillary was the clear winner, and she had a strong stance against Russia (Obama also had a stance against russia, though softer), but she lost. If she'd won, do you think American input into NATO would have decreased?

It does feel like a betrayal. Russia had always been the enemy, and now Trump is calling Putin a stand-up bloke.

Continued American input into NATO would've likely not have decreased under Hillary, but those sentiments weren't part of her platform. Trump used them to build his own (as part of his general 'America First' arrangement), because they were there and fitted quite nicely in the profile he was building.

It is unexpected in as much that it was unexpected for Trump to win the election, but it can't have been a bolt from a blue sky that the Americans might re-assess their military investment in Europe. Further, as much as it's rather galling to see him cosy up to a threat to European stability, he hasn't made a to western Europe that he is now breaking. It's a pisser, and very bad news for us all, but it's less of a broken promise from Trump and more of an economic re-assessment that hurts us.

Russia had always been the enemy
Oi. Even in the 90s-early 00s?

There was a general spirit along the lines of "Woooh! Capitalism won! Peace forever! Transendance! Now all we'll need are peace keeping forces!", I seem to remember. The idea of the Russians pinching Krim and a slice of eastern Ukraine would've been absolutely mad.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #113444 on: November 13, 2016, 07:22:11 pm »

I have been made aware of the existence of trampoline parks. I could go bounce around and break my neck any time I want. And nobody fucking told me about this! I fucking love trampolines!
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