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[Frumple]

Orange Wizard            Ban      Repeated unprovoked America-bashing

rip

[press f to pay respects]

* Frumple presses u.it's the letter on the opposite side of the alphabet :3

[Yoink]

I had in mind certain posters on this forum. Who bring up how terrible halal slaughter is and have never once mentioned anything else related to animal welfare. I'm sure they're not the only ones out there. So I'm talking about the anti-halal people specifically, who suddenly discovered animal rights when they realized you could bash muslims with it.

If you're talking about me, I blather on about animal rights (despite the mostly deaf ears of my audience on here) fairly regularly.
I'm a vegetarian. Frankly all cattle farming disgusts me and I would rather see all of it gone, but the idea of halal/kosher butchery just presents wholly unnecessary additional suffering which has no place in the modern day. Then again, if there are horrible cruelties taking place in so-called "modern" abattoirs (I mean, other than the fact that they're killing thousands of purpose-bred creatures to make a fucking steak ) I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, given the kind of people who would take on such a job.

In this discussion, however, I based my argument on a hypothetical version of the two butchery methods- how they're intended to be, on paper.
Never once did I say that the way we treat animals in factory farms was okay or acceptable, I merely said that halal is even worse, and unnecessarily so.

If one wanted to simply pick on Islam there are countless other, also-damning facets of the religion to mention.

[Lord Shonus]

but the idea of halal/kosher butchery just presents wholly unnecessary additional suffering which has no place in the modern day.

Apart from "A knife is obviously crueler than a spike to the back of the neck" assumptions, the only evidence to suggest there's any cruelty involved is an experiment where the slaughter was performed wrong. If done correctly with all four major blood vessels in the neck severed simultaneously, total exsanguination from that style of butchery takes an extremely short amount of time, and the animal loses awareness in much less time than even a properly performed stun-bolt method.

[Yoink]

Destroying the brain is always going to be a better method than stabbing it a few times. Unless you're stabbing it in the right part of the brain.

[Lord Shonus]

And yet there are plenty of experiments that show that brain waves continue far longer after the "modern" method than with the exsanguination method. I have yet to see a single study with both procedures properly executed that show anything else.

[Shadowlord]

Destroying the brain is always going to be a better method than stabbing it a few times. Unless you're stabbing it in the right part of the brain.

Can you present evidence that the brain is actually destroyed?

[hops]

Why don't we try it on a human and ask them how painful it is?

[Reelya]

If you're talking about me, I blather on about animal rights (despite the mostly deaf ears of my audience on here) fairly regularly.

No, i was alluding to some of our resident right-wing members. The guys who are on about race war type stuff a lot.

Frankly all cattle farming disgusts me and I would rather see all of it gone, but the idea of halal/kosher butchery just presents wholly unnecessary additional suffering which has no place in the modern day.

My sort of other point was that throat-cutting was a controlled level of suffering, whereas the bolt-to-the-head system leads to a lot of still-conscious animals being sent down meat processing lines. And this is then swept under the rug because they claim to be doing it the proper way. That kind of extreme wouldn't happen with throat-cutting. Maybe there's a better way than both the brain-bolt or the throat-cutting. But the outcome of the brain-bolt in action often leads to far worse outcomes for suffering than the halal way.

[Yoink]

And yet there are plenty of experiments that show that brain waves continue far longer after the "modern" method than with the exsanguination method. I have yet to see a single study with both procedures properly executed that show anything else.

If that's the case, it's the fault of the abattoirs in question having poor machinery.
There is no reason modern technology would be less efficient than a knife. With proper equipment (and butchers willing/required to pay for it) there would be no contest.

Destroying the brain is always going to be a better method than stabbing it a few times. Unless you're stabbing it in the right part of the brain.

Can you present evidence that the brain is actually destroyed?

Uh, I'm not sure where you got the idea that I worked in an abattoir.
I don't know what they do there, all I know is that the idea is for the brain to be destroyed by the bolt gun or whatever they're called.
Mind you methods could be different here to in the US, I don't know.

Why don't we try it on a human and ask them how painful it is?

While I'm all for giving humans a taste of their own medicine, whether it worked properly or not I doubt they'd live long enough to describe the experience.

[hops]

Also on the topic of animal rights, I'm fairly anthropocentric and I acknowledge my empathic bias, but I am not in a position of power to cause a global conversion to vegetarianism, nor do I believe we have advanced enough in gastronomy to make it work.

[pisskop]

o/

im pretty right wings.

'When you take out the nonsense, your're left with what's Right'

:p

but no, I dont recall having beef with muslims recenty. They don't have enough cookouts

[Frumple]

As I noted the last time this was suggested, Y, we actually do have the medical technology to survive a pretty extensive amount of exsanguination these days, especially if properly prepared for it. Chances of the test subject surviving are pretty high, with the proper setup.

[pisskop]

who would we test it on?

[Frumple]

A volunteer proponent for the butchery method, of course.

[hector13]

yoo gais

its bin lyk, a gazilyin paijs, plez to teh stahp?

PPE: good luck finding a volunteer, byraway.