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[Arx]

So this lecturer just blithely sailed into this concept that I swear he has never taught before, fully expecting everyone to know it. Wow.

[cottontailcake]

It's at times like that that I'm glad my topics are so closely related this semester :/

[Yoink]

I've had a fuckin' weird day, but I can't put my finger on quite why it felt weird.
Wasn't even an interesting or tangible kind of weird. Just... weird.          

Maybe it's because I was wearing shorts. Oh well, at least I went for a nice, reasonably long walk.

[Reelya]

I had a class today where the topic was transhumanism, and we were discussing whether you could "own" a (strong) AI, i.e. own a conscious being, and people in the class said that it wasn't something you were normally allowed to do. I then pointed out that we own animals, no problem, and those are conscious beings. Some people in the class thought that was a reasonable point, then this one young guy started yelling at me that it was ridiculous to believe animals were conscious, that they only run on pre-programmed "instinct". Apparently he had no problem with the idea of a conscious computer, but a real sticking point for him was in believing a cat, dog, dolphin etc could possibly be conscious. That's really a WTF for me that anyone could believe that.

This guy then brought up basic hard-wired stimuli-response as his model of how animal brains work, aka "Instinct". "Instinct" is basically a cop-out term for any animal behavior we haven't explained yet. Animals do a lot of the same things we do. I think if we could ask them, they'd give similar reasons as to why the did those things. After all, biological urges of human exist to trick us into doing things that foster survival and reproduction. (e.g. sex urge makes us want sex for it's own sake, whereas it serves a purpose of making babies).

[EnigmaticHat]

Wonder if his parents own a slaughterhouse or something...

[Emma]

Apparently he had no problem with the idea of a conscious computer, but a real sticking point for him was in believing a cat, dog, dolphin etc could possibly be conscious.

Actually I can understand that point of view completely, mainly because it aligns with mine pretty closely :/. Maybe it comes from living on a farm my whole life where I've been raised to raise animals for being killed and eaten.

[hector13]

It is cold, and I don't like it. That never happens. Cold is good.

[Sonlirain]

That's also a thing in abrahamic religions as well.
Animals are created to serve man.
Animals are dumb biological automatons with no feelings.
Therefore
You can kill enslave and be cruel to the useless wastes of air as much as you want because they have no souls, feelings and exist exclusively for your amusement (and food).

Now being conscious is a weird thing because it implies inteligence and some form of thought... but you might as well disregard that as instinct at a drop of a hat.

My dog greets me by running up to me with its tail wagging?
I might interpret it as my dog showing me affection and being happy to see me.
OR i might just say that the dogs instinct recognized me as its pack leader and provider of food that will kick it if it misbehaves... and being kicked hurts.

Even if i assume that my dog is controlled by instinct only there is a bit of intelligence in him that tells him not to do things that will get him punished.
Still... the furry asshole will run away whenever he smells a bitch in heat no matter how illogical that might be so i guess that's a point for "instinct".

Also a cat making a rational decision.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Reelya]

It's a good thing that no human has ever taken annoyance out on someone who was clearly not responsible.

But that clip is actually kind of interesting. The cat is startled, maybe isn't sure who was to blame, but decided to take it out on the other cat. It could have been a blame thing, or could have been a "what are YOU looking at" thing. And the cat clearly understands that whomping another animal is a punishment (the ability to be mean for the sake of being mean shows some understanding of empathy).

[hector13]

That probably was the rational decision, though. Without further evidence of relationship between the cats, the cat hitting a rival is the best option in that scenario.

[Orange Wizard]

That's also a thing in abrahamic religions as well.

No?

Animals are created to serve man.

Indeed. However, animals are still part of God's creation and should be respected (not revered, but treated decently, even if you're going to eat them later). Anyone who argues that cruelty is justified because they're here to "serve" has grotesquely missed the point.

Animals are dumb biological automatons with no feelings.

Sure, but so are humans. Point's moot.

Anyway, point is, please stop ravaging the strawman.

[TempAcc]

Anyway, point is, please stop ravaging the strawman.

This threadReligion thread in a nutshell.

[Egan_BW]

Yeah, but what if some actual people are actually made from straw?

[TD1]

And you just hurt their feelings by bringing up their straw-based infirmity.

You evil, evil person OW. 

[Sonlirain]

Anyway, point is, please stop ravaging the strawman.

Aaand you missed the point.
Animal sacrifices are a thing in Judaism.
And so is ritual slaughter in both islam and judaism that's basically about keeping the animal conscious as long as possible after slitting its throat so both religions advocate needless cruelty towards livestock.