Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Kot]

Does e.g. Mio from K-On really look western because of the eyes? :-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as I'm concerned she does. There is something specific about asian faces (that I actually don't like, they seem not really attractive to me) even with the big eyes (like the ones in second spoiler... though the one on the right could pass as... I don't fucking know, some crazy latina and asian mix?), which pictured girl doesn't seem to have, which in turn means to my eyes that she's not asian, and if she's not asian then she's proably western white girl since that's what she resembles the most. It proably depends on where you live, so the Japanese think they're Japanese and most westerners think they're caucasians.

I am not arguing she's not actually asian, I'm arguing that in my humble opion most animes (some do great, mostly those portraying realistic stuff) do a shitty job portraying asians to people who don't have any idea about the arbitrary Japanese stereotypes... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, honestly, after a bit of Googling it turns out that this argument is literally as old as anime itself and it gets very heated at the times and only reasonable answer is that they're not asian... or caucasian... they're anime people.

[JoshuaFH]

Does e.g. Mio from K-On really look western because of the eyes? :-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as I'm concerned she does. There is something specific about asian faces (that I actually don't like, they seem not really attractive to me) even with the big eyes (like the ones in second spoiler... though the one on the right could pass as... I don't fucking know, some crazy latina and asian mix?), which pictured girl doesn't seem to have, which in turn means to my eyes that she's not asian, and if she's not asian then she's proably western white girl since that's what she resembles the most. It proably depends on where you live, so the Japanese think they're Japanese and most westerners think they're caucasians.

I am not arguing she's not actually asian, I'm arguing that in my humble opion most animes (some do great, mostly those portraying realistic stuff) do a shitty job portraying asians to people who don't have any idea about the arbitrary Japanese stereotypes... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, honestly, after a bit of Googling it turns out that this argument is literally as old as anime itself and it gets very heated at the times and only reasonable answer is that they're not asian... or caucasian... they're anime people.

I always believed it was because Japanese people just love light/pale skin, so side effect of that is that most anime characters have very light skin. I'm reminded of Tidus from FFX, who is very lightskinned in normal gameplay, but then during cutscenes his conspicuously Asian stunt double jumps in for some nasty swamp sex with a now more asian-as-well Yuna.

[pisskop]

:|

Was akways under the impression that it was a concious choice to give Japanese characters more western features, to help it cross the ocean and let us over here identify more easily and thus buy more plushies or w.e.


Marketing being what it is, I wouldnt put it past people to subvert their culture and role models to sell better with Muricans

[Neonivek]

:|

Was akways under the impression that it was a concious choice to give Japanese characters more western features, to help it cross the ocean and let us over here identify more easily and thus buy more plushies or w.e.


Marketing being what it is, I wouldnt put it past people to subvert their culture and role models to sell better with Muricans

Nope that is not the case. Anime characters in fact do look quite Japanese for the most part if you know what you are looking for.

Just look at any "western" character in anime and compare them to a Japanese character.

[Reelya]

I don't believe animu peoples are supposed to be nonjapanese either, Reelya, but I'm 145% certain those pictures are edited.

The pictures aren't necessarily 'shopped, but they've been made up and professionally photographed.

There are some before and after pictures of Asian girls with make up etc, which look pretty striking. But they look almost identical to before and after shots of American celebrities in the same situation (e.g. Kim Kardashian). And that includes the eyes looking bigger. So that sort of puts a kink in the "they want to be western" idea. Who exactly are the western girls who do the same thing trying to be?

So even if you say "Yeah scrub that makeup off and they don't look so good!", we have to do that equally to everyone.

[Reelya]

Does e.g. Mio from K-On really look western because of the eyes? :-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as I'm concerned she does. There is something specific about asian faces (that I actually don't like, they seem not really attractive to me) even with the big eyes (like the ones in second spoiler... though the one on the right could pass as... I don't fucking know, some crazy latina and asian mix?), which pictured girl doesn't seem to have, which in turn means to my eyes that she's not asian, and if she's not asian then she's proably western white girl since that's what she resembles the most. It proably depends on where you live, so the Japanese think they're Japanese and most westerners think they're caucasians.

I am not arguing she's not actually asian, I'm arguing that in my humble opion most animes (some do great, mostly those portraying realistic stuff) do a shitty job portraying asians to people who don't have any idea about the arbitrary Japanese stereotypes... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, honestly, after a bit of Googling it turns out that this argument is literally as old as anime itself and it gets very heated at the times and only reasonable answer is that they're not asian... or caucasian... they're anime people.

Each race perceives an undefined person as being their own race. That's the root of the issue.

They do a shitty job of "portraying asians" because they aren't trying to do that. The Japanese automatically perceive every cartoon character as Japanese unless there's an overt marker telling them otherwise. So do Americans. A non-marked person is American. Someone is only French if they have a beret, red neckerchief, and black and while stripy top. Whereas in France, the default character is French, unless they have a Stetson hat and cowboy boots + a six-gun at their waist.

Here's a test: what race is Marge Simpson?

As it turns out, that is an American opinion, not a Japanese one. The Japanese see anime characters as being Japanese. It is Americans who think they are white. Why? Because to them white is the Default Human Being.

If I draw a stick figure, most Americans will assume that it is a white man. Because to them that is the Default Human Being. For them to think it is a woman I have to add a dress or long hair; for Asian, I have to add slanted eyes; for black, I add kinky hair or brown skin. Etc.

The Other has to be marked. If there are no stereotyped markings of otherness, then white is assumed.

Americans apply this thinking to Japanese drawings. But to the Japanese the Default Human Being is Japanese! So they feel no need to make their characters “look Asian”. They just have to make them look like people and everyone in Japan will assume they are Japanese – no matter how improbable their physical appearance.

You see the same thing in America: After all, why do people think Marge Simpson is white? Look at her skin: it is yellow. Look at her hair: it is a blue Afro. But the Default Human Being thing is so strong that lacking other clear, stereotyped signs of being either black or Asian she defaults to white.

[Neonivek]

Marge's ancestry is French I believe.

[MaximumZero]

Given that her maiden name is Bouvier, it's likely.

[Rolan7]

I've seen photo evidence that she's racially a rabbit.

[TheBiggerFish]

Spoiler: Minor Undertale Neutral/Pacifist Route Spoiler, yes I am going to spoiler it. (click to show/hide)

Photoshop/Omega Flowey's laugh, when you start the fight?

It's from Homestuck's Cherubim album, on The Lordling.

And somehow I went until now without noticing that.

[scriver]

* scriver dons his mad European race-biologist gear.

Marge is obviously partially originally-French-colony-state African American, but also probably of mixed heritage to some degree.

I don't believe animu peoples are supposed to be nonjapanese either, Reelya, but I'm 145% certain those pictures are edited.

The pictures aren't necessarily 'shopped, but they've been made up and professionally photographed.

"Professionally photographed" includes photo editing. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

* scriver removes mad scientist gear.

[Reelya]

I always believed it was because Japanese people just love light/pale skin, so side effect of that is that most anime characters have very light skin. I'm reminded of Tidus from FFX, who is very lightskinned in normal gameplay, but then during cutscenes his conspicuously Asian stunt double jumps in for some nasty swamp sex with a now more asian-as-well Yuna.

Yeah, it's derived from yamato nadeshiko, which is the traditional set of "ideal feminine" values in Japan. It includes pale skin. A big part of pale-skin idolization in Asia is because of class, not race, and it goes back well before any contact with the West. Tanned skin is historically associated with working outdoors, e.g. manual labor, thus being low-class. Pale skin is associated with a life of indoor leisure, e.g. the nobility, and especially for women, of domesticity. Geisha wore white makeup for the same reason. And clearly the Geisha, which were predominant for about two centuries predating WWII, don't really overlap with any post-WWII Japanese influences from the West.

[Helgoland]

Originally it was the same in the West, too. Guess where 'blue blooded' comes from?

[Frumple]

That feeling when you finally get around looking up what a rather nice song was about and are enlightened to the fact that "cocaine" is the answer.

Had figured a while back it was something about drugs, but... still. Yet another part of the playlist confirmed as something I probably should turn the sound down for when driving through school zones.

E: Though in retrospect, it's at least more subtle than the one with the four whores having a conversation about which of them is the loosest. That one got a hell of an expression out of my parent when I played it for 'em. Surprisingly excellent song, hell of a subject :V

E2: Gavin Friday's rendition of Baltimore Whores, if anyone was curious, by the by. Won't link due to content, but it's quite possibly one of the best constructed pieces of music of its type that I've ever heard. The singer's about as close to perfect as I could imagine, the instrumental accompaniment is spot on, the lyrics themselves are disturbingly well put together. A+ material, it's just about gratuitously promiscuous prostitution.

[Rolan7]

Immediately thought of the rather unsubtle Eric Clapton song:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJyQpAiMXkg
Obviously wrong so here have an entertaining WTF animu song on the same topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN6zHZYiaRA