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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14928664 times)

itisnotlogical

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91155 on: December 03, 2015, 01:41:49 am »

I haven't had a problem yet.

Speaking of updates though, I'm updating LibreOffice right now because Writer won't stop nagging me until I do. LibreOffice is rather slow, but I didn't realize that even the installer was slow. It just finished as I was typing this post, clocking in at about 15 minutes.
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scriver

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91156 on: December 03, 2015, 02:07:45 am »

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IcyTea31

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91157 on: December 03, 2015, 04:03:09 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?
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Execute/Dumbo.exe

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91158 on: December 03, 2015, 04:08:01 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?
I think (And that's important there) that it's kind of like... Okay, shit, this is gonna be hard to explain with my limited knowledge.
Anyway, apparently, if you take a sudden rush of sugars, your body, in order to keep homeostasis, releases tons of insulin to pack that sugar away, problem is, said insulin doesn't really know when to stop, so your body will send out signals to make you eat more sugar because now your body is running low and you need that shit right now, it creates a cycle pretty quickly, but if you eat something like an apple, your sugar intake is buffered, so your body won't freak out, like slowly increasing the temperature in a bath, I guess.

However, if you juice enough apples to make a glass of apple juice, what you've got there all the sugar concentrated into a small package, without anything to buffer it, so the cycle starts.
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SimRobert2001

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91159 on: December 03, 2015, 04:31:46 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?
I think (And that's important there) that it's kind of like... Okay, shit, this is gonna be hard to explain with my limited knowledge.
Anyway, apparently, if you take a sudden rush of sugars, your body, in order to keep homeostasis, releases tons of insulin to pack that sugar away, problem is, said insulin doesn't really know when to stop, so your body will send out signals to make you eat more sugar because now your body is running low and you need that shit right now, it creates a cycle pretty quickly, but if you eat something like an apple, your sugar intake is buffered, so your body won't freak out, like slowly increasing the temperature in a bath, I guess.

However, if you juice enough apples to make a glass of apple juice, what you've got there all the sugar concentrated into a small package, without anything to buffer it, so the cycle starts.
The fact that she couldn't explain that using those words, and had to resort to hand waving makes me worry about her education.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91160 on: December 03, 2015, 04:40:49 am »

@dumbo:
I see what you're saying, logically it makes sense. If that woman knew, then she should have explained better how the fiber in the vegetable/plant matter affects it. Without an explanation, it just seems like brainless mumbo-jumbo about being natural that might very well be baseless and meaningless. And useless. We must know. The process needs to be defined, the difference in intake rate needs to be described, and we need to know how to reproduce it.

I HATE it when someone leaves me hanging like that too. :P
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 04:42:39 am by Eric Blank »
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Shadowlord

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91161 on: December 03, 2015, 04:52:56 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?

If you're not diabetic or pre-diabetic, this is probably stuff you don't even need to worry about, unless you're just curious, of course.

It's complicated/confusing enough that I don't fully understand it despite trying to read about it on wikipedia in the past, but part of it is the amount of carbohydrates and part of it is how fast they're processed. When you're digesting fruit juice or fruits, the carbohydrates in fruit juice are processed more quickly than the ones in actual fruit. A quick search turns up http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/whole-fruit-juice-diabetes-risk (They summed it up with "Eating blueberries, grapes, apples and pears cuts the risk of type 2 diabetes but drinking fruit juice can increase it, a large study has found.")

One reason would be that fruit juice has a higher glycemic index than the fruit it's made from. I don't know if the sugars are broken down when the juice is pasteurized or not (I tried doing a search but apparently I'd need to remember how to search for scientific articles instead of random websites that might be bullshit), but it certainly has almost no fiber, normally. There's also the fact that a glass of apple juice is going to contain more carbohydrates than a single apple, if you were deciding which to eat.

Assuming this site is accurate, here's apples and apple juice to compare:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1810/2
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/1822/2

My non-expert guess would be that the main problem is the reduction in fiber (resulting in a higher glycemic index) and increase in amount of carbohydrates (increasing glycemic load). It's still way better than eating straight sugar, though. ;D

(Apparently the pulp in orange juice contains no fiber. I'm not sure if the orange juice with pulp has a lower glycemic index than orange juice without pulp or not... It certainly doesn't taste as obnoxiously sweet, but that doesn't mean anything.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 04:55:13 am by Shadowlord »
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scrdest

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91162 on: December 03, 2015, 05:04:17 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?
I think (And that's important there) that it's kind of like... Okay, shit, this is gonna be hard to explain with my limited knowledge.
Anyway, apparently, if you take a sudden rush of sugars, your body, in order to keep homeostasis, releases tons of insulin to pack that sugar away, problem is, said insulin doesn't really know when to stop, so your body will send out signals to make you eat more sugar because now your body is running low and you need that shit right now, it creates a cycle pretty quickly, but if you eat something like an apple, your sugar intake is buffered, so your body won't freak out, like slowly increasing the temperature in a bath, I guess.

However, if you juice enough apples to make a glass of apple juice, what you've got there all the sugar concentrated into a small package, without anything to buffer it, so the cycle starts.
That doesn't really explain everything. By that logic, if you need to juice several apples to make a glass of juice, then it's still equivalent to the amount of apples it took. So, a single apple's worth of juice would approximately have as much sugar as a single apple, discarding the sugars in the parts you don't get in the juice (so even less of 'em).

Likewise, with sundried apples, and this doesn't even have the excuse of fiber, because sundrying has fuck-all to do with removing the fiber in any way. It removes *water*. That's why there's 'drying' in the name of the process.

And even still, fiber doesn't explain anything here. At best, you could say it makes you less hungry, since it's pretty much literally (untreated) paper - it's not digested, essentially the perfect inverse of 'empty calories' - it takes some place in the stomach making you feel fuller, but is nutritionally useless.

E: However, an important distinction is whether we're talking about freshly squeezed juice or commercially available juice. The latter are sometimes sweetened.

Incidentally, this is the right thread and subdiscussion to bring up a weird thing I noticed: it seems like I work better starving. I went through this Monday on a handful of muesli, a 30 gram granola bar and a morning coffee, so ~300 kcals total, until the late evening and I've noticed being more alert and clear-headed, better reaction times, and hell, even had better posture. Not the first time either, I've been noticing that throughout this summer. I wonder, is that some kinda evolutionary hack to make you go into 'hunting mode' to FIND ME SOME GODDAMN FOOD NOW, LOOK, SEE IT NOW?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 05:05:49 am by scrdest »
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Shadowlord

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91163 on: December 03, 2015, 05:09:27 am »

This passage from the Guardian article I linked might help.
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"Fluids pass through the stomach to the intestine more rapidly than solids even if nutritional content is similar. For example, fruit juices lead to more rapid and larger changes in serum levels of glucose and insulin than whole fruits," they said.
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Execute/Dumbo.exe

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91164 on: December 03, 2015, 06:05:14 am »

Apparently, I have Rhinitis.
This explains a lot, actually, sure as hell explains why I almost never have a day where my nose isn't running.
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IronyOwl   But Kyuubey can more or less be summed up as "You didn't ask."
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Akura

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91165 on: December 03, 2015, 06:45:08 am »

I've killed the "Get Windows 10" process several times now, and it won't go away. I do not want Windows 10, stop bothering me about it!
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Bohandas

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91166 on: December 03, 2015, 07:09:54 am »

A woman, apparently with some affiliation to WHO, lectured today about how much sugar food has these days. Nothing I didn't know before, until a weird point came up. Apparently, if I eat an apple raw, the sugars in it are completely harmless to me, but if I squeeze it into juice, they're just short of Hitler. And the same if I slice and sundry it. I questioned this, and she handwaved something about removing the natural fibers in the fruit, but how does that have anything to do with the sugars? Why would refining my food in a way that doesn't change its chemical composition somehow change its sugars for the worse? Can anyone explain this to me?
I think (And that's important there) that it's kind of like... Okay, shit, this is gonna be hard to explain with my limited knowledge.
Anyway, apparently, if you take a sudden rush of sugars, your body, in order to keep homeostasis, releases tons of insulin to pack that sugar away, problem is, said insulin doesn't really know when to stop, so your body will send out signals to make you eat more sugar because now your body is running low and you need that shit right now, it creates a cycle pretty quickly, but if you eat something like an apple, your sugar intake is buffered, so your body won't freak out, like slowly increasing the temperature in a bath, I guess.

However, if you juice enough apples to make a glass of apple juice, what you've got there all the sugar concentrated into a small package, without anything to buffer it, so the cycle starts.
That doesn't really explain everything. By that logic, if you need to juice several apples to make a glass of juice, then it's still equivalent to the amount of apples it took. So, a single apple's worth of juice would approximately have as much sugar as a single apple, discarding the sugars in the parts you don't get in the juice (so even less of 'em).

I think apple juice is like multiple apples by volume though. Like a given volume of apple juice might be like more than that volume of apples.
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LordBaal

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91167 on: December 03, 2015, 07:18:21 am »

What the nutritionist on the medical service at the company I work told me that is better to eat the fruits and then drink water rather than juice, first because when you blend them you dilute the fruit which is bad because... reasons I don't know, I guess it just gives more work to the stomach or something and second and this one is really very truth, as you dilute the flavour of the fruit you tend to add sugar, lots of it, so that's not mambo jumbo but something real, unless you enjoy almost tasteless coloured water you'll end up adding sugar. Unless you make the juice with no water, but not all fruits can be made into juice without water.

And then there's the inherent loss of fibers when you peel of or dismiss not drinkable but totally edible parts of the fruit. Again that depends much on the fruit you are eating. Being from a tropical country I can say I don't even know how many different fruits grow here, let alone tasted or prepared all of them.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 07:20:29 am by LordBaal »
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91168 on: December 03, 2015, 08:36:30 am »

Besides, I've seen pine forests that look pretty much exactly like that second image.

Except that is muted green, not deep or frosted green :P
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Helgoland

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #91169 on: December 03, 2015, 09:30:28 am »

Merge into the left lane so I can stop
This startled me quite a bit.
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