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[Furtuka]

Heheh you chose the wrong example to use on the wrong person there Tawa~

I gotta agree with Neo btw. On story premise at least. In the end everything relies on the viewers tastes and how skilled the creator is at implementing it.

 A neat thing related to the subject would be how Jim Butcher's Codex Alera started as an internet dare over whether Jim could make a good story out of two "lame" ideas of the challengers choosing. (The challenger chose The Lost Roman Legion and Pokemon)

[Tawa]

Bad character. Bad story premise.

Because I'm not a masochist, please tell me what the premise is so I don't have to read it.

Mary Sue OC has incredibly badly written sex with Draco Malfoy. All the main characters are incredibly stereotyped goths and change their names to things like "Vampire" and "Diabolo". Snape, Voldemort, and, for no real reason, Lupin are "preps" and have the master plan of forcing the OC to kill Harry or else they'll kill Draco, which they never really follow up on. Later chapters involve the OC going back in time to try to make Voldemort, here known as "Tom Satan Andorson Bombodil", fall in love with her so he won't become evil.

[Frumple]

A neat thing related to the subject would be how Jim Butcher's Codex Alera started as an internet dare over whether Jim could make a good story out of two "lame" ideas of the challengers choosing. (The challenger chose The Lost Roman Legion and Pokemon)

... I hadn't heard of that. It... it's actually pretty obvious, in hindsight, that those two could be labeled as influences for the series. You wouldn't know it without knowing it beforehand, though. Pretty impressive!

[Yoink]

-stuff-

The fuck

Why are you sharing this. As if JK Rowling's drivel wasn't bad enough in the first place.

Spoiler that shit before it gives someone brain cancer. o_o

[GiglameshDespair]

Complaining about My Immortal being bad is like complaining about Scotland. We all know it's terrible; it's amusing so, even.

[Orange Wizard]

sex with Draco Malfoy

Pretty sure that just counts as incredibly badly written. Goth characters aren't bad, per se, and the story (while incredibly badly written) isn't totally unworkable.

It's shit, but a skilled writer could pull it off for the right audience.

Also, what Yoink said. Pretty sure just hearing the description gave me the 'flu.

[Owlga]

I remember something about sticking someone in someones "sex" and THEN they got hard. Utterly confusing.

[Orange Wizard]

I don't think we should be discussing the mechanics of lovemaking

[Tawa]

-stuff-

The fuck

Why are you sharing this. As if JK Rowling's drivel wasn't bad enough in the first place.

Spoiler that shit before it gives someone brain cancer. o_o

It's hilarious. It's, like, the literary equivalent of Turkish Star Wars. Bizarre plot, invincible hero, vaguely recognizable bits and pieces here and there. Just more sex and goffickness.

That and it's a prime example of a bad character, since we were talking about it. I could've brought up My Inner Life--bad OC who gets married to a video game character and yells at us for not liking it--but it's not funny.

sex with Draco Malfoy

Pretty sure that just counts as incredibly badly written. Goth characters aren't bad, per se, and the story (while incredibly badly written) isn't totally unworkable.

It's shit, but a skilled writer could pull it off for the right audience.

Also, what Yoink said. Pretty sure just hearing the description gave me the 'flu.

Since you seem to not have read the story itself, I implore you to. Mere words can't do it justice. That's not a contradiction of the story's medium, since the author misspells practically everything once it gets good.

[Neonivek]

Bad character. Bad story premise.

Because I'm not a masochist, please tell me what the premise is so I don't have to read it.

Mary Sue OC has incredibly badly written sex with Draco Malfoy. All the main characters are incredibly stereotyped goths and change their names to things like "Vampire" and "Diabolo". Snape, Voldemort, and, for no real reason, Lupin are "preps" and have the master plan of forcing the OC to kill Harry or else they'll kill Draco, which they never really follow up on. Later chapters involve the OC going back in time to try to make Voldemort, here known as "Tom Satan Andorson Bombodil", fall in love with her so he won't become evil.

Then go watch the "My Immortal The Webseries" and watch as suddenly My Immortal goes from "bad" to "good".

How did they do it? Simply by changing the context.

It is still Enoby, but she is in a story that allows her character to shine.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5OvOrULKKzEZsxq2mvfgCA

You might need to go to other websites to see some episodes... but otherwise... Yes.. Watch as this series turns a bad character into a good one.

[Jopax]

Laptop made a strange mechanical sound moments ago. Didn't sound too good tbh, like something came loose or fell into the cooling fan. I'll need to take the bastard apart and see what's wrong. Damn it, the last thing I need right now is for this thing to die on me.

[Tawa]

Then go watch the "My Immortal The Webseries" and watch as suddenly My Immortal goes from "bad" to "good".

How did they do it? Simply by changing the context.

It is still Enoby, but she is in a story that allows her character to shine.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't watch that right now--long story, has to do with satellite internet bandwidth restrictions--but I think this should sum up my point.

That said, sure, you can change the perspective to change the perception of the character. But if you look at a landfill from a different angle, it's still a landfill. Changing the perspective might make the character more entertaining or interesting, but it doesn't make the character good.

[Frumple]

... your point seems to be that things that are badly written are badly written, though (which is true, in the most tautologically boring way), not that the premises used in badly written works can't be used in well written works to good effect. Which is mostly what neo is contesting, and from 'is direction is a pretty ubiquitous general rule.

[Tawa]

The point there was the character, not the story premise. The premise of the character could have been interesting, suppose, except that we were talking about the character specifically, not the idea behind the character.

And can you explain to me how "lots of sex interspersed with whining about nothing in particular" is ever a good plot premise?

[Neonivek]

That is the premise to Sex in the City.

Though... not sure how "Badly-written" is part of that premise.