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[BlackFlyme]

Right, another thing that happened today. A job was re-done because the customer was dissatisfied. Their problem? The stickers they received were upside-down.

The solution should have been to tell them to just rotate the damn things 180, because there was no actual flaw with the product. This is not the first time we've received a complaint along these lines.

We once got sent boxes back because all of the tattoos inside weren't packed all facing the same way.

[Tack]

Reading over the last few pages I missed, I happened to check something and found a horrifying realization. Read the second definition.

Heh. Chatting to feminist friend the other day. Was doing my standard douchey 'sometimes stereotypes are real' bit.
They bite, so I go 'Ok, so the one how men only think with one head at a time'. Much chuckling and head-nods all round.
'Right, how about women spending too long on the phone?' - "YOU PIG".
Tried a few more times... like clockwork.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they were taking the piss. I was laughing anyway, so if they weren't, that's gotta be uncomfortable.

To be fair, the patriarchy is a thing - but you aren't gonna kill a cockroach with a nuke.

[Graknorke]

Right, another thing that happened today. A job was re-done because the customer was dissatisfied. Their problem? The stickers they received were upside-down.

http://notalwaysright.com/

get posting

[Flying Dice]

To be fair, the patriarchy is a thing - but you aren't gonna kill a cockroach with a nuke.

That's the thing that gets me -- people complaining about trivial shit instead of real problems like the wage gap and media portrayals of female politicians. I'm just as annoyed by (for example) what unions have become, but labor rights and company-employee disputes aren't all the rage with self-centered teenagers, so it doesn't come up. And if it did, it would be whining about how it isn't fair that entry-level types get less flexible lunch breaks.

[Neonivek]

To be fair, the patriarchy is a thing - but you aren't gonna kill a cockroach with a nuke.

That's the thing that gets me -- people complaining about trivial shit instead of real problems like the wage gap and media portrayals of female politicians. I'm just as annoyed by (for example) what unions have become, but labor rights and company-employee disputes aren't all the rage with self-centered teenagers, so it doesn't come up. And if it did, it would be whining about how it isn't fair that entry-level types get less flexible lunch breaks.

Ehh even when they discuss things like the wage gap you will find that generally speaking... no one has nuance or even knows the reasons for the gap and pretty much sums it up as "because sexism".

Not that you cannot generalize it to "because sexism" in a manner of speaking... but that it is a over simplification...

It is like answering "Why doesn't the car work?" with "Because it is broken"

And thus nothing ever really gets done on the wage gap because no one even knows what the problem is...

---

Remember Feminism is not one thing but rather a category. There is nothing that prevents a feminist from being sexist towards men or women. So "Is a feminist" doesn't really mean too much to me other then this person is particularly outspoken in terms of what they perceive as women's rights.

[Calidovi]

Reading over the last few pages I missed, I happened to check something and found a horrifying realization. Read the second definition.

All those tweens that wrote shitty self-inserts and assorted other terrible fanfics? They've grown up and joined the tumblr brigade, and are now using that to shield themselves from criticism in the way that "NO FLMAES" never seemed to. The beautiful irony? "Mary Sue" was coined by a woman back in '73 when she used it as the name for a character (Lieutenant Mary Sue ("the youngest Lieutenant in the fleet — only fifteen and a half years old")) in a satirical piece making fun of shitty fanfiction.

I am awestruck every day I remember that horrible fanfictions may have been around since the dawn of time.

Spoiler: Gilgamesh II (click to show/hide)

After the grand walls have finished, Gilgamesh finds that his days are numbered. He appoints his nephew, Absumusen (Darkraven for you idiot Egyptians), the handsome and youngest demigod known to Sumer. He, along with his attractive companion Aksu, must continue the legacy of their lands for all days to come.

[Tack]

So "Is a feminist" doesn't really mean too much to me other then this person is particularly outspoken in terms of what they perceive as women's rights.

Feminism isn't women's rights anymore. It's everyone's rights. It's the removal of stigma from both genders, and freedom from oppression.
OFc, quoting above feminist friend on that, but regardless, it just means that the blanket definition is even more blanket than you might've thought it was.

So 'Is a feminist' to me means 'outspoken'.

[Rolan7]

So "Is a feminist" doesn't really mean too much to me other then this person is particularly outspoken in terms of what they perceive as women's rights.

Feminism isn't women's rights anymore. It's everyone's rights. It's the removal of stigma from both genders, and freedom from oppression.
OFc, quoting above feminist friend on that, but regardless, it just means that the blanket definition is even more blanket than you might've thought it was.

So 'Is a feminist' to me means 'outspoken'.

Hell yeah!  I would proudly call myself a feminist under that definition.
Well, the first one   I could be a lot more outspoken in person.

[Loud Whispers]

Feminism isn't women's rights anymore. It's everyone's rights. It's the removal of stigma from both genders, and freedom from oppression.
OFc, quoting above feminist friend on that, but regardless, it just means that the blanket definition is even more blanket than you might've thought it was.
So 'Is a feminist' to me means 'outspoken'.

To me it's egalitarianism that is for everyone's rights, whilst the people crying oppression are the ones screaming loudest to put in action oppressive legislature or else are quite confused. I like your definition, but I don't see it in action. Hell, anyone fighting for equal rights wouldn't even identify with egalitarianism because there is no ideological tag surrounding good people.

[Neonivek]

So "Is a feminist" doesn't really mean too much to me other then this person is particularly outspoken in terms of what they perceive as women's rights.

Feminism isn't women's rights anymore. It's everyone's rights. It's the removal of stigma from both genders, and freedom from oppression.
OFc, quoting above feminist friend on that, but regardless, it just means that the blanket definition is even more blanket than you might've thought it was.

So 'Is a feminist' to me means 'outspoken'.

Feminism is at most Female side egalitarianism.

It isn't Egalitarianism classic

Basically if this was economics... Feminism is the equivalent of supply side economics. It dips into demand, but that isn't the focus.

[Tack]

I forgot to add 'And guilt-free chocolate cake for everyone' up there.
Don't want my facetiousness to be taken out of context is all.
People may begin to think I'm a tolerant person who has respect for the views of others.

It's hilarious because I always used to think I was a chauvinist, thinking it meant something similar to 'traditionalist'.
Whereas chauvinism actually means excessive and prejudiced support for your X.
Meaning that female supremacists (I call them that now, to avoid tainting the word 'feminism' with the original feminists) are actually chauvinists.

It amused me.
I also term myself a 'Chivalrist' now. I assume the term will grow as the membership dies.
But the best part about being a part of a club involving you and that one guy on urbandictionary is that I can use it as a blanket term for 'me', and still have all of my silly little views about the mistreatment of women and zealous expectations of gender in our society.
Thus, I shall have my cake, eat it, and bake it too.

Feminism is at most Female side egalitarianism.

I have tried this argument so many times you have no idea.
But a definition debate is a lose/lose game. So someone has to give up, and if you're the one who does, suddenly you're arguing on the side of the monsters.

[SealyStar]

Ah, feminism rants. I'll put in my two cents:

Plenty of feminists, maybe even the majority, honestly believe and publicly claim that it's a movement for gender equality. Unfortunately, their actions and expressed goals generally don't reflect that and it's deceptive at best to pretend the movement helps men in any substantial way.

Now, I sympathize more with feminists than with MRAs because it's easy to see that, as a group, women have slightly greater problems than men. The core of feminism's problem is that feminist doctrine focuses so much on "male privilege" that they not only deny the existence of a corresponding "female privilege" but say the term itself is nonsense.

You don't have to be a feminist to notice the large lack of women in high-paying, privileged fields like science and technology, big business, and government. Or the high rates of male-on-female sexual violence. Or the endless battles by mostly-male conservatives to take away women's reproductive rights.

You also don't have to be an MRA to notice the even-larger lack of women in dirty, dangerous fields like mining, construction, and the military. Or the fact that male victims of sexual or domestic violence, while less common, are almost never believed or helped out, and in fact liable to be arrested themselves due to accusations from abusive female partners. Or the lack of reliable, comfortable birth control for men, period.

When you find feminists who have done any serious campaigning (not just lip service) for any men's issue (the ones above are good starting points), then I'll reconsider my perspective. If your proposed rebuttal is "But feminism as a movement is focused on helping women!" then a) feel free to lose your mind trying to reconcile that with the "equality" claim, and b) maybe stop harassing and slandering anyone who does try to address men's issues?

[LordSlowpoke]

hey, good thing vector isn't here

veccie dear would probably get all up in this

[Neonivek]

As always the best way to handle gender politics is to know the issues...

Then completely ignore it because it isn't worth the hassle and your help isn't wanted or needed... In fact you are actively discouraged from joining.

You and everyone else will be happier and when they say "if you aren't with us your against us" just remember! You can't help.

When you find feminists who have done any serious campaigning (not just lip service) for any men's issue (the ones above are good starting points), then I'll reconsider my perspective.

Well... I've seen it. Usually it is for helping male children who are disadvantaged due to an overly female oriented schooling due to over-zealous school curriculum changes.

It is actually a very interesting subject that has been developing for years.

[Helgoland]

Can't we talk about something enlightening instead? For example: Do all animal penises have foreskins, or are there naturally circumcised ones?