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[Akura]

Only if they dual-wielded it with a plasma pistol.

[Zangi]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

[Neonivek]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

Because absolutely not caring... makes you Chaotic

[Zangi]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

Because absolutely not caring... makes you Chaotic

Not really.  Cause thats just chaotic stupid. 
You follow laws cause there is a consequence, not because you believe in them. 
You also ignore laws, when it is convenient/the consequence is worth it/you can get away with it.
Is there really a need to be some sort of arbiter?

[Sergarr]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

Because absolutely not caring... makes you Chaotic

Not really.  Cause thats just chaotic stupid. 
You follow laws cause there is a consequence, not because you believe in them. 
You also ignore laws, when it is convenient/the consequence is worth it/you can get away with it.
Is there really a need to be some sort of arbiter?

No, that's why True Neutral are batshit insane.

[Zangi]

So what would be the real alignment for an actual neutral neutral?

[wierd]

neutral neutral.

to the neutral neutral, laws are an artificial construct that can be used either constructively or destructively. The neutral neutral chooses which laws to uphold, and which to ignore, based on what those laws stand for, or intend to do.

The ONLY laws that neutral neutrals hold sacrosanct are natural laws. cause and effect, etc.

neutral neutral is a requirement for some kinds of spellcaster class.

[Sergarr]

So what would be the real alignment for an actual neutral neutral?

Neutral, "Undecided"

A neutral character does what seems to be a good idea. She doesn’t feel strongly one way or the other when it comes to good vs. evil or law vs. chaos. Most neutral characters exhibit a lack of conviction or bias rather than a commitment to neutrality. Such a character thinks of good as better than evil—after all, she would rather have good neighbors and rulers than evil ones. Still, she’s not personally committed to upholding good in any abstract or universal way.

Some neutral characters, on the other hand, commit themselves philosophically to neutrality. They see good, evil, law, and chaos as prejudices and dangerous extremes. They advocate the middle way of neutrality as the best, most balanced road in the long run.

The first part is what you want.

[scriver]

Isn't murder technically a Chaotic act anyway? I mean, there are laws against murder, which apply even if the victim themselves is Evil or if it was done for a "good" reason.

The alignment of Lawful has very little to do with what is legal or illegal. Lawful people are not automatically warped into agreeing or disagreeing with an act based on whether the act is legal or not. Neither is breaking any individual law in itself a Chaotic act, nor is following one inherently Lawful. A Chaotic Good person who believes all life is holy and never kills does not necessarily act Lawful just because he is by happenstance avoiding to break the law of the land by not murdering people, for example.

So what would be the real alignment for an actual neutral neutral?

I usually separate Neutral, True Neutral, and Unaligned (for nonsentient beings and things). But that's just me, of course.

[Neonivek]

A Chaotic Good person who believes all life is holy and never kills

Given that the Exemplar of "Chaotic Good" is Robin Hood... and he kills a LOT of people...

Chaotic Good is the alignment most in favor of "for the greater good"

[Greiger]

Animals who don't know better are one example.   but I always kinda figured the don't really care thing was more true neutral than chaotic neutral.  A little on the chaotic side of neutral maybe.  But I see a true neutral that isn't the everything must balance type as the one's that don't really care for the law but will follow it as long as there is no strong modivation not to.

Here's a situation that gives my opinions on the lawful alignments: 3 different people are driving to a location.  They get a red light, but there is no traffic or signs of people in any direction.

Lawful: Will sit at the red light until it turns green in everything but an emergency.
Neutral: Will sit at a red light until it turns green, unless they are in a particular hurry or pressured into going (like a person behind them honking for them to just go)
Chaotic: Will just go without a second thought.  Check to make sure it's clear, and no hidden cops, then go.

Of course since the alignments are so ill defined I'm sure others have different opinions.  In any cas somebody could fall into the neutral situation there, and not have an opinion on good or evil.  Those people would be true neutral without being the everything must balance type.

Super Ninjad, and I don't care, posting anyway.  Forum neutral

[Rolan7]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

I got ninja'd by Scriver, but yeah.

1) Normal people who don't have a strong position in the four directions - most people in a typical setting are like this.  Looking out for themselves first, but with some compassion.  Willing to deceive when it's appropriate, not for the sake of it.  Baseline.
2) People who believe strongly in that instinctual, baseline morality.  Typically druids.  They oppose the unnatural influence of the forces of self-sacrifice, stagnation, chaos, and sadism.

[Neonivek]

A Lawful person believes that a code of rules and discipline are the best way for someone to live by.

While a Chaotic person believes that rules are just restrictions on a person living up to their potential.

Lawful people tend to be honest because they believe in "order". While a Chaotic person doesn't care because to him words are cheap and don't mean anything.

Honestly Law vs Chaos are weird in that... well as someone said "The alignments are based off of modern thinking" but... Law vs chaos are CLEARLY not. Good and evil? Yeah...

[Bohandas]

I don't get how 'true neutral' have to be the arbiters of balance or whatever have you.  Can't they just not give a shit either way?

They most definitely can. That's how the neutral deity Boccob is generally presented.

[i2amroy]

I'm not seeing how the first part of that description = "batshit insane". Heck, even the second part sounds a lot more like something a greek philosopher would advocate and follow than something of madness. Though I can obviously see how the second part could be played that way, "oh, fed that street dog? Better kill that kitten", but I don't think it has to be like that. Even a character following the second part of the description wouldn't seem that crazy as long as they advocated balance on a macro scale instead of a micro one (like say a rouge that steals regularly from good people, but then did good deeds the rest of the time to "balance" the bad ones they are doing could still fit the "philosophically committed to neutrality" description, since they are balanced on a macro scale, if not quite on a micro one).

Reading up on what the lawful/chaotic descriptions, I'm not sure I'd agree with with your description at the light there. Chaotic is described as "Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it". To me that means that a Neutral Character might be a little reluctant to go and might feel guilty about going if they do go, where a Chaotic character would go or stop as they feel like doing at the moment, and wouldn't feel guilty either way. Chaotic != breaks all laws, it means they don't respect authority and they do what they want to do at the moment. (Though if there was say, a stop sign there I could see a Chaotic character getting a bit of fun out of breaking it, since they "resent being told what to do", but that doesn't mean they have to break it if they don't feel like it).

Ninjas! Everywhere!