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[Neonivek]

That makes the assumption that there is only one kind of bully-- Alpha bullies

They aren't the only kind...

But the idea that the bulk are just people who feel so helpless that they take it out on everyone around them is a myth... and is in fact extremely rare (people who feel absolutely helpless tend not to become bullies... mostly because it requires you to have confidence you can lord your power over people)

[wierd]

That makes the assumption that there is only one kind of bully-- Alpha bullies

They aren't the only kind...

But the idea that the bulk are just people who feel so helpless that they take it out on everyone around them is a myth... and is in fact extremely rare (people who feel absolutely helpless tend not to become bullies... mostly because it requires you to have confidence you can lord your power over people)

That's a strawman, and is not what I said.  I said that most bullies (since beta bullies far outnumber alpha bullies) have self-esteem issues (relate to the group dynamic, instead of the self-dynamic, for their sense of identity and self-value) that cause them to be bullies.

I did not say that they were so weak willed that they are unable to break free-- that would be counter-intuitive to the suggested remedy-- remedial therapy and civics training.

[Neonivek]

That makes the assumption that there is only one kind of bully-- Alpha bullies

They aren't the only kind...

But the idea that the bulk are just people who feel so helpless that they take it out on everyone around them is a myth... and is in fact extremely rare (people who feel absolutely helpless tend not to become bullies... mostly because it requires you to have confidence you can lord your power over people)

That's a strawman, and is not what I said.

Ohhh I know it isn't what "You said" that is what the "Myth" is. xD

I am explaining why the Myth is so fictitious.

As a way to counter point a possible "Well are you saying those are the only bullies?"

[scrdest]

It's an issue with phrasing, I think. There's insecurity, then there's insecurity.

Specifically, there is low self-esteem, a'la 'my shoes are really fascinating, aren't they? I'll keep looking at them', then there is unstable high self-esteem, which is high - but fragile. Classically, it pops up in narcissistic personality, for example. And when someone's self-esteem is attacked, same as any other threat to vital needs... aggression happens.

[wierd]

Bingo.

Thus the 'need' to always lead, to always be in charge, and to remove threats to that dominance. it increases their feeling of safety and security. (But is NOT a healthy way to do this, as I already stated.)

This is a kind of local maxima-- they get a sufficiently large support from this action that they do not consider going for the actual ideal solution-- may not even SEE the actual ideal solution, or even consider the ideal solution all that ideal.

That is why intervention is necessary.

[i2amroy]

That said it's still important to prevent the bully from beating up others while they might be having an intervention, and possibly some punishment as well. It's like, just because you were having a bad day and you were raised in a bad environment doesn't necessarily mean that it's okay for you to go out and steal somebody else's stuff and then get off scott free. (A successful plea of insanity still gets you into a psychiatric ward, after all).

Yes, intervention is definitely something that should be done, and done early, but it doesn't totally excuse the fact that the bully is essentially ruining somebody else's life (and I've met people who have been pushed to the verge of suicide by bullies before). While how horrible your life is might moderate whatever punishment you receive, it shouldn't totally cancel it IMO.

[Neonivek]

That said it's still important to prevent the bully from beating up others while they might be having an intervention, and possibly some punishment as well. It's like, just because you were having a bad day and you were raised in a bad environment doesn't necessarily mean that it's okay for you to go out and steal somebody else's stuff and then get off scott free. (A successful plea of insanity still gets you into a psychiatric ward, after all).

Yes, intervention is definitely something that should be done, and done early, but it doesn't totally excuse the fact that the bully is essentially ruining somebody else's life (and I've met people who have been pushed to the verge of suicide by bullies before). While how horrible your life is might moderate whatever punishment you receive, it shouldn't totally cancel it IMO.

Not intervening is also a bad thing to do to the bully.

[i2amroy]

Of course. I'm not saying that we shouldn't intervene (because we should). I'm saying that despite the intervention there should still be at least some form of punishment, albeit a moderated one.

[Neonivek]

Of course. I'm not saying that we shouldn't intervene (because we should). I'm saying that despite the intervention there should still be at least some form of punishment, albeit a moderated one.

I am adding onto what you were saying, not saying you said the opposite

[i2amroy]

Ah ok, wasn't quite sure there.

[Neonivek]

Ah ok, wasn't quite sure there.

I think perchance I need to make it clearer to people in general.

[AlleeCat]

Did a quick lookup of the film 'Splice'

Whelp, all kinds of fucked up going on there, apparently. Not touching that.

Oh gods, that movie. I've seen bits and pieces a couple times, and it's definitely seriously fucked up. What the hell was Adrian Brody doing there, anyway?

Spoiler: Some of the fucked up stuff that happens (click to show/hide)

Adrian Brody attempts to drown a little mutant girl (that he was parenting) and then somehow passes it off as knowing that her lungs were amphibious the whole time.
Adrian Brody attempts to make two penis-worm-things mate in front of a crowd for some reason and instead they kill each other very messily because apparently one of them up and switched sex overnight.
Mutant girl straight up murders a cat in front of her mom because she wasnt allowed to keep it at first and then her mom changed her mind.
Adrian Brody cheats on his wife with mutant girl who has his wife's DNA which sort of makes him the father, not to mention he's been her father figure the whole time.
Mutant girl actually rapes her mom and gets her pregnant somehow?

[Jopax]

And of all that the most fucked up thing about the movie is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The mother (can't remember the name) says she'll keep the baby)

Still a terrific little horror piece.

[wierd]

Nevermind that no ethics board IN THIS UNIVERSE would sanction these experiments, and the data collected would be so tied up in pending federal legislation that the company they did it for would never see a dime.

(also, what self-respecting gene engineer transplants whole chunks of genomes at a time, without first knowing an epic SHIT TON about how those pathways will interact? Seriously? WTF! Hollywood just does not understand science.)

[AlleeCat]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The mother (can't remember the name) says she'll keep the baby)

Oh yea, I forgot about that part. I still can't really tell if it's good or terrible, but it's definitely the kind of thing you'd expect from a SyFy original movie.