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[scriver]

You guys are picking on poor Scriver. Stop that.

In seriousness:
How long have tabletop games been out Scriver?  Something like 40+ years now?  That's a lot of time, with a lot of collaborations, and a lot of brain storming by a lot of people who wanted to make something new and edgy.  That all the low hanging fruit has been picked already is not unexpected.  At this point in the game, you just need to ignore that other systems have used something similar in the past.  Think about the problem you are trying to address as clearly and logically as you can, then address it. It does not matter if somebody else has already done something similar.

...What? Scriver?

[wierd]

Oh jeeze-- My bad. Sergarr. Blah.

[AlleeCat]

Here, you guys: This is the new sex-ed curriculum.

I actually think that teaching about contraception, consent and gender expression should be taught earlier than that, but that's just, like, my opinion, man.

[Helgoland]

Hm, I realize I'm probably voicing a dissenting view here, but I think it only makes sense to teach kids stuff if they can somehow relate. Telling them about the difference between sex and gender, for example, does not make much sense as long as the latter is not a meaningful concept for them. Similarly I think it would be hard to stress the, um, intricacies of consent in this context without them already having an understanding of the matter a bit more advanced than IKEA erotica.

That having been said, if US grades are like German grades, I generally agree with that curriculum, although contraception could be introduced earlier than proposed. It appears to me that most issues are touched upon in the lower grades, getting the kids aquainted with the concepts, and then later on developed in more detail once they're older.

[scrdest]

I doubt that *consent* of all things would be a concept kids are unfamiliar with. And if they are, holy shit, that needs to be rectified ultra fast, that's like Ethics 101 in like 90% of systems.

[Helgoland]

Well, consent in general is established as a concept in kindergarten - don't take away Bobbie's toys until he's given you permission -, but consent in this context is a wee bit more complicated, don't you think? What with 'implicit consent' and such, and the very grave consequences of acting the wrong way, whether accidentally or on purpose...

[Frumple]

I doubt that *consent* of all things would be a concept kids are unfamiliar with. And if they are, holy shit, that needs to be rectified ultra fast, that's like Ethics 101 in like 90% of systems.

... you say that like ethics is taught below the college level. I mean, conceptually, I've heard of it happening. As an elective. In a tremendously small minority of schools. Miles and miles away from anywhere I've ever lived. But generally no, not so much. Not in the states, anyway.

Anything regarding morality and whatnot being explicitly taught in US public schools, in general, is just not something I've heard of. It comes in kinda' sideways and incidentally (sometimes), but as part of curriculum or something, not so much.

[wierd]

I think he was referring specifically to SEXUAL consent, not the concept of consent in general.  They understand the concept of consent, eg, "allowing billy to play with my toy truck", but probably not "I am allowed to tell the adult pervert it is not OK to touch me there."

I believe Helgo was getting at the logical  necessity for said kids to understand sex as an internalize thing instead of an externalized abstract concept before it makes sense for there to be discussions about weather or not it is OK to be giving consent.

EG, when sex is limited to parroted "That's where babies come from", and not advanced enough to be "Sex is a pleasurable experience that just so happens to also be how babies get made", it is not really sensible to be teaching the kids that they can choose to engage in that activity or not-- CLEARLY, they are NOT ready for it yet.

[Frumple]

Uh, wierd. Half the point of sex ed is teaching kids to be safe even if they're not "ready" for it. Because kids often turn active a long time before they're mentally prepared for it, and stopping that... doesn't really work.

You start with consent and whatnot early and keep repeating it 'till it sticks. Preferably before they're mature enough to really comprehend the concept, because it's entirely possible they'll start screwing well before that point, too. Even if they don't really grok the concept, every little bit helps.

[scrdest]

I doubt that *consent* of all things would be a concept kids are unfamiliar with. And if they are, holy shit, that needs to be rectified ultra fast, that's like Ethics 101 in like 90% of systems.

... you say that like ethics is taught below the college level. I mean, conceptually, I've heard of it happening. As an elective. In a tremendously small minority of schools. Miles and miles away from anywhere I've ever lived. But generally no, not so much. Not in the states, anyway.

Anything regarding morality and whatnot being explicitly taught in US public schools, in general, is just not something I've heard of. It comes in kinda' sideways and incidentally (sometimes), but as part of curriculum or something, not so much.

Teaching ethics is not the same thing as giving a formal lecture on ethics. 'Do not stab your classmates' is ethics, too.

[BlackFlyme]

That having been said, if US grades are like German grades, I generally agree with that curriculum, although contraception could be introduced earlier than proposed. It appears to me that most issues are touched upon in the lower grades, getting the kids aquainted with the concepts, and then later on developed in more detail once they're older.

It's Canada. I'm not quite familiar with US grades, but here would be a general age breakdown for Canadian grades:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Grade 1 = 6-7
Grade 2 = 7-8
Grade 3 = 8-9
Grade 4 = 9-10
Grade 5 = 10-11
Grade 6 = 11-12
Grade 7 = 12-13
Grade 8 = 13-14
Grade 9 = 14-15
Grade 10 = 15-16
Grade 11 = 16-17
Grade 12 = 17-18

You would think that topics regarding addiction and mental illness would be taught at an earlier grade, rather than at the ass-end of their grade-school life. Though I suppose the refresher before they are out on their own is also beneficial.

[wierd]

Uh, wierd. Half the point of sex ed is teaching kids to be safe even if they're not "ready" for it. Because kids often turn active a long time before they're mentally prepared for it, and stopping that... doesn't really work.

You start with consent and whatnot early and keep repeating it 'till it sticks. Preferably before they're mature enough to really comprehend the concept, because it's entirely possible they'll start screwing well before that point, too. Even if they don't really grok the concept, every little bit helps.

That kind of conversation is best applied as a "People are not supposed to touch you there" policy, until the kids grok sexuality better.  Otherwise, you end up with a potential for twisted things like perverted adults telling kids they can be "Special buddies", or the increased probability of juvenile sexual experimentation even before their hormones have started flowing. (Telling a kid it is OK to do something, often results in them trying to do that thing, just to know what it is like, if for no other reason. Premature exposure to potentially dangerous concepts is a bad thing, m'kay?)

Again, abstenance is the better message to give until they have an internalized sexual idenity, and a sexual impulse that is genuinely theirs. Until that time, it makes no sense at all to be telling them it is OK to say yes if they want it (which is the other side of consent.)

[SealyStar]

I had to take sex ed three times (5th, 7th, and 9th grade). Every time it was, of course, "penis enters vagina, sprays out sperm which fuses with egg to make babby". But if you do do that, you will get chlamydia... and die. Blah blah abstinence, sex is for making babies, blah blah everyone in the universe has the AIDS, LGBT don't real, thanks '80s Republican legislators.

[Arx]

blah blah everyone in the universe has the AIDS

I went through government school sex ed at a time when abstinence was strongly advocated because that was pretty much true for the target audience in my country, heh. It also made such suggestions as "If you're not willing to risk having a child, you shouldn't have sex", which is reasonable, IMO.

[Frumple]

Again, abstenance is the better message to give until they have an internalized sexual idenity, and a sexual impulse that is genuinely theirs.

... which might not happen until their twenties or some crap, well after they've been screwing for a decade.

But eh. So long as that's not all you're doing, whatever. Abstinence can be your primary message so long as you're not dropping the ball on actually teaching people what they need to be safe.