Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NJW2000]

Generally as a one guy, you sound pretty unlucky to start with an all female, fed up with males, conservatives(?- sounded like they were pretty abrasive on the unemployed) grouping.

Still, don't stop trying. Doing so will result in a vicious spiral, but you seem able to interact w/ forumites, .'. not past point-of-no-return socially. Sorry to give a random pep talk like annoying strangers give you on the internet... but as a person who has a little difficulty making new friends due to priviliged upbringing/lack of knowledge that I would like girls, ever... I think the best way to make more friends is not really to think about it, just try and merge into the social background... once they're used to you listening to their conversations, you're completely accepted.

Anyone who is "good" at "socializing" is either just really nice, in which case they'll want to get to know more unsociable people, or at least partially hidden douchebag.

[Eric Blank]

I'm sorry, they weren't being abrasive about unemployment at all. I just felt like I didn't have much in common to discuss even on that topic because I'm unemployed and know virtually nothing about getting or keeping a job as a result.

[Lord Shonus]

I've been reading a series of cop novels (W.E.B. Griffin's Badge Of Honor series, to be precise), and it seems like the author got confused about it. For six books, the series is a period piece set in the early-to-mid 1970s (deliberately, the series started in '88), and it sticks quite well to that setting - secretaries use high end typewriters, the few computers around are time-shared terminals, nobody's heard of DNA, and a recurring (if minor) plot point is the anemic .38 Special pistol that the Philadelphia cops are forced to use. Suddenly, in the sixth book, the cops are toting laptop computers, cellphones, and Glocks; major breaks in the cases are found by IP address tracing, the crimes turn into human trafficking (specifically the homicide of trafficed illegals, and the difficulties in investigating such crimes) and designer drugs instead of the Mafia hit men, college terrorists, and corrupt Vice cops of the earlier books (in other words, they went from 1970s issues to 2000s ones); and the cast of characters is exactly the same, unaged (to the point where the fatal shootout at the end of Book 6 (~1974) is stated to have been only six months before Book 7 (~1998 based on technology and federal organizations mentioned.)

[EnigmaticHat]

My experience with college is that you find your "orientation week" friends and then you quietly stop hanging out with them when you find people you actually like.  As opposed to tolerate.

The problem being that outside of that first, like, month or two after all the new Freshman come in, everyone already has friends.  Lot of transfer students go without friends in college.

I don't know, attend every school club until you find people you like?

[Graknorke]

The water in my house tastes wrong and everybody else insists that it's fine. It used to taste like just clean water, a bit like bottled water but with some different flavours because of differing contents of whatever is dissolved in the tap water.
But a year or so ago it started tasting kind of like arse? Vaguely of chemicals and decaying biological matter. Not pleasant, at any rate. But my mum reckons that it's no different to how it's ever been and how any water ever is, even though the difference is very much noticeable if you have it side-by-side with some bottled water.

But hey I'm not the one who owns the house so it's not like I can really do anything about it.

[AlleeCat]

"I think the only thing I like with a penis anymore is the one in my belly (I'm pregnant by the way.)"

I think this is a horrible sexist thing to say and I'm a feminist. I would be offended if the situation were reversed, so it makes sense that you were offended.

[wierd]

Eric--

Getting and keeping a job is not that difficult. Really. All you have to do is not be a spazz, and have some useful skillset somebody is willing to hire.

In my experience, there are 3 kinds of people who have difficulty keeping jobs:

Party going spazzoids with bad priorities
People with REALLY shitty life circumstances (which make them LOOK like party going spazzoids, or just spazzoids in general)
People who's primary job skill goes through ups and downs. (Like IT people, Hair dressers, etc.)

If you are NOT one of those, and you can pick up a useful job skill, you will not have any serious trouble getting and keeping a job.
(Note, in the middle category I include skilled people who lack good educational skills, people who are "sheldon cooper" levels of socially inept, have crazy family members that fuck shit up, etc.)

Unemployment is something that, statistically, EVERYONE will face at some point in their adult lives, since last time I checked, the average adult changes VOCATIONS (not jobs, VOCATIONS) 2 to 3 times.  Things happen beyond your control, and the next thing you know, you are looking for another job, and have to live off your savings for awhile. 

If the people you were hanging out with have never experienced unemployment, THEY are the ones missing useful life skills. Surviving periods of unemployment make you thrifty, and careful with your finances. Since this is college, I expect that a good portion of those individuals will start to sting financially by the end of their junior year. You might as well-- Tuition is downright extortionate these days-- but you will know the financial aid system better than they will, and will have a better go of it.

Just be serious about your course work, be serious on what your intended vocational skillset will be, and you will be fine.

[Graknorke]

Woah, since when did hairdressers have trouble finding jobs? In the town I live in there are 3 of the places just in the centre of town, and even more elsewhere. The same with every small-ish town nearby.

[Neonivek]

I sort of agree in terms of the social obligations created by actual gift-giving, but that's not really what you're describing, Neo. Those are situations where someone has gone out of their way to try to make your life easier -- it's not about the help they're offering, but the sentiment behind it, that they genuinely and without ulterior motives care enough about you as an individual to give up their own time to help you.

Yes, it can be sort of annoying when you're trying to be humble or self-sufficient and someone is insistent. However, in the subtext of the situation, what you're doing is essentially telling that person that you dislike them enough to not accept a simple indication of friendship, basic decency, or love, or that you think you're better than them, regardless of what you actually intend. If you're busy working and someone who you live with cares enough to make you a bite to eat, even if you don't want it, the decent thing to do is to at least accept it and thank them.

To boil it down to the simplest possible level: if you're heading through a door that someone else has just gone through and they stop to hold it for you, do you stop and tell them to cut it out or go through a different door that they aren't holding instead of continuing and maybe nodding, smiling, or giving them a little "Thanks,"?

And here is why they are the bigger jerk and you demonstrate it so well.

How much of a jerk THEY are... Is proportional to how much of an imposition and obligation their faux generosity is.

So, I don't want to eat something and I refuse and now your telling me that my obligation, because they are insistant, is to put "Their" needs ahead of my own and eat it EVEN THOUGH I don't want it to.

And that is why they are the bigger jerk.

There is no such thing as a "Obligatory gift".

[Graknorke]

Putting other people's needs ahead of your own is kind of the basis of human interaction though. Things would be pretty shitty if people didn't do that.

[Neonivek]

Putting other people's needs ahead of your own is kind of the basis of human interaction though. Things would be pretty shitty if people didn't do that.

So what is a gift where it forces the other person to do it... and you not to?

Right... Not a gift at all... Jerk!

It is like giving the gift of a mess on the floor... Except one where if you refused, everyone around you will suddenly talk about how awful you are for not accepting.

[Graknorke]

It is like giving the gift of a mess on the floor... Except one where if you refused, everyone around you will suddenly talk about how awful you are for not accepting.

Not particularly. A mess is a problem you have to deal with. A present you don't want is just neutral. All you have to do is take it and then shove it on a shelf somewhere to forget about.

[Frumple]

Yeah, it does go both ways. Rejecting their sentiment is being a little jerky, but so's rejecting the recipient's. They're expressing dislike or perceived superiority just as much as the person turning it down. S'refusal to accept communication either way, and it's certainly going to seem like the greater imposition from the point of view of the person being imposed upon.

Still, utilizing social-fu to deal with some of that is a pretty useful skill to pick up. It's harder with stuff like folks showing up at the door to drive you places, but food at least is a pretty easy, "Ah, thanks, but I really don't want* to eat right now, so I'll stick it in the fridge and eat it later." The next day, you fend of their advances with the leftovers. Ride I would fend off with invocations of wanting to try some exercise, or just appreciate the weather or whatev'. Probably ask 'em to come along, or arrange for the ride at a different date. Thanks but no thanks, deflect to a different instance to show willing to accept sentiment under different conditions. Some people won't accept or be comfortable with a no, so you figure out ways to say no by saying yes, if you care about them. If you don't, well, there's always gratuitous vulgarity and maybe soap on a rope or somethin'.

S'a bloody nuisance pretty often, but sometimes y'just can't really get the point across so you judo flip it onto the mat and get on with your life, preferably without actually having to break someone's limbs.

*Or really can't. The issues I have with reflux is probably 10-15% fabricated just so I can comfortably turn down family that wants to eat in the afternoon. As another example, telling folks I'm not hungry when they want to go out to eat is an outright lie probably better than half the time -- I really do appreciate the sentiment, but not enough to suffer for an hour or more over a meal I don't want in a place I don't want to go to.

[wierd]

Personally, I like to give gifts, and not small ones either.  If I see somebody really wants or needs something, and I can get it for them without causing myself any trouble, I want to get them that thing.  It's a somewhat dangerous situation, giving big gifts though--  People dont always respond well to getting a big gift, like Neonivek is reporting here, but from the other side. 

I dont want anyone to feel obligated to do or give me anything in return; that goes against the very concept of a gift. (Giving something with the expectation of getting something in return is not gift giving, that's bribery.) The problem, is that people often feel self-conscious about receiving a big gift, and then feel compelled to make up for that self-consciousness.  I will choose to accept reimbursement, if the recipient is adamant about giving it, just for their peace of mind, but do not really expect nor want such remuneration for a gift--- since, again, such remuneration is against the very concept of gift giving. (Seriously, I just want to give you something you have been needing or wanting for a long time, so that you can enjoy having that thing! THAT"S IT!)  The idea is to give somebody something they have always wanted, and make them happier, not to make them unhappier by making them feel like they have a debt that they now must repay. I .. I can't even imaging PURPOSEFULLY ENGINEERING a situation where I would give a big gift, with the INTENTION of causing such a guilt-trip induced bout of servitude from the recipient! That's... That's like ANTI-gift giving!

It is difficult to accept when somebody staunchly refuses such an jonest gift, however; There does not seem to be any rationality to the refusal-- why refuse? I dont intend for you to pay me back-- just take the offer. If you REALLY dont want it, sell the thing or something. What you do with a gift is up to you.

But, some people prefer to cope with feelings of insecurity by asserting that they dont want something, and that is their choice. They should not be forced to accept a gift, any more than somebody should be forced to give one. All they are doing in my mind is refusing something offered to them, and that is their prerogative. If it is something they have needed or wanted for a long time, their not having that thing is not because I didn't at least try to help them get it, and is now their own choosing to not have that thing-- for whatever reason.

If I like you enough to get you a gift, I choose to give something worthwhile, and do so in true honesty of the spirit of giving a gift.  That's it.  I suppose that other people may be sick, twisted bastards that abuse gift giving to get something in return from somebody, but I consider that a sick, twisted, and profane concept that I reject summarily and with prejudice-- that is NOT gift giving.

[Flying Dice]

I wasn't necessarily disagreeing about actual gift-giving. That does have some rather annoying social obligation mechanics involved in it.

What I did think was screwy was acting the same way towards casual kindnesses that are functionally expressions of people caring about you and which cost literally nothing for you to accept. If I'm walking to the grocery and someone I sorta know is driving by, sees me, and offers me a lift for a few blocks, what does that cost me? It's materially so trivial as to be meaningless, but is emotionally beneficial for both parties -- I have an affirmation that one of my friends cares enough to go out of their way to help me out, they get an affirmation that I trust them enough to accept the gesture and affirmation on their end of our friendship.

I mean, it sounds sort of crude to reduce being a good person to cost-benefit calculations, but that's apparently how Neo wants to treat it. If you don't want people to do nice things for you or be good friends to you, I can give you a supremely simple solution: be an absolute arrogant dick to everyone you meet and know, and I guarantee that nobody will ever want to or offer to help you, do anything nice for you, try to give you a gift on holidays or milestones in your life, or even bother to interact with you at all beyond the bare minimum mandated by your jobs or lives as students/family members.