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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14517423 times)

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75840 on: May 06, 2015, 09:32:37 pm »

Welp, I've written a 146-word sentence in my Typology final. I sure hope the prof can understand this.

Quote
Moreover, because intransitive verbal marking is entirely separate from transitive verbal marking, and intransitive verbal markers do not map onto transitive markers, it might be said, if flippantly, that Nishnaabemwin’s direct-inverse alignment is in some sense a more elaborate and developed neutral alignment, and that expecting the subject role of an intransitive verb to map cleanly to the agent of a transitive (rather than the patient of a transitive, as is the case in Nishnaabemwin passives, whose only argument is simultaneously a subject with regard to agreement marking and a patient vis ŕ vis direct-inverse marking) is a sensible assumption from a nominative-accusative standpoint, but may not necessarily apply in languages with other alignment systems; if so, the residual patient marking of the passive’s subject would not be a strike against the validity of its promotion any more than residual agent marking, were it present, would be.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75841 on: May 06, 2015, 09:33:24 pm »

gwarblefrigglewarblewark

who decides it's a good idea to have an optional (viciously difficult, at that point) boss early in the game be the load bearing stone for an end-game town (that contains like a quarter of the game's equipment >_<)? Why would you do that? Now the character is not just out of equipment, but halfway through the game and staring at the mostly-eaten corpses of what would otherwise be a lively little sewer town. This is both depressing and frustrating ;_;

why valdis story why

imma cheat the hell out of you now because of this, but why ;_;
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BFEL

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75842 on: May 06, 2015, 10:04:11 pm »

gwarblefrigglewarblewark

who decides it's a good idea to have an optional (viciously difficult, at that point) boss early in the game be the load bearing stone for an end-game town (that contains like a quarter of the game's equipment >_<)? Why would you do that? Now the character is not just out of equipment, but halfway through the game and staring at the mostly-eaten corpses of what would otherwise be a lively little sewer town. This is both depressing and frustrating ;_;

why valdis story why

imma cheat the hell out of you now because of this, but why ;_;

So wait are you supposed to kill this boss to save the town or NOT kill this boss to save the town. Either way makes it kinda interesting.
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BlackFlyme

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75843 on: May 06, 2015, 10:10:26 pm »

After your first boss fight, a big abominable snowman looking thing drops in, and an NPC drags you out of the room, telling you to avoid it. Then you cannot re-enter until you follow the NPC to a nearby town.

If you do not go back to fight that boss before a certain point in the story, which I believe is a bit before when you have to backtrack through that same area again, then it will not appear again, and will destroy the town.

The problem is, even at the point where the optional fight is no longer possible to attempt, you would still likely not be able to win without a good deal of effort.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75844 on: May 06, 2015, 10:26:50 pm »

It's actually not quite like that if you're playing one of the new characters -- yeti-dude never actually drops in for dakkabro, and the altered plot basically shoos you off in the direction of the town that locks you out of the fight very, very quickly (it's like one dungeon and two bosses before you start trekking off towards firetown on vlad, compared to two or three dungeons and a few more bosses on th'other critters, and you immediately get access to a way to bypass the yeti's area entirely when you get back to town).

It's not been until my third friggin' playthrough that I even realized it was a thing that happened ;_; Sworddude and punchchick runs both ate the D/F rank and killed it early. Hopefully it'll be less painful with wingy by that point... actually got rolled over in the first frikkin' boss fight with her, but I'll be pointing cheat engine at it soon (giveum drops, all the drops!) so eh.

Though yeah, yetidude is brutal, same with the raven. Two of the harder boss fights in the game to get a good rank on. Will probably utterly wreck your face if you immediate turn heel and try to jump the bugger. And apparently a load bearing boss, which is just nasty ;_;

E: That load being something like a quarter of the game's NPCs -- if you don't beat a more-or-less end-game boss during the early game, it eats a forth of the game's towns. which is admittedly maybe not saying that much considering there's only four towns, but still...
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 10:32:46 pm by Frumple »
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BlackFlyme

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75845 on: May 06, 2015, 10:32:49 pm »

They finally added new characters? I haven't played in about a year now.

I still remember that damned raven though. I stopped playing at one of the two secret bosses needed for the secret ending.
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Frumple

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75846 on: May 06, 2015, 10:34:25 pm »

Like day before yesterday or somethin', yes! Two new characters, new zones, new enemies in some places, buncha stuff. S'like a 400 meg patch. It's pretty great, excepting the part where it had me realize this whole yeti thing.

Though iirc on my first playthrough, I think I actually ran in to the raven, like, on the way to unlock the library or somethin'. Very early in the game, compared to when you probably should. That was a hell of a thing. Retries were involved.

E: Incidentally, if any of you happen to be playing valdis story for the first time, maybe don't buy the teddy bear as soon as you're able. Just... wait a bit. Maybe.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 10:38:38 pm by Frumple »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75847 on: May 06, 2015, 11:17:02 pm »

It's also partly because stories in which everyone is generally good people and nothing really bad happens are boring. Not just in the dramatic sense of conflicts in such settings involving such characters being trivial, easily resolved, and temporary, but also in the critical sense -- it's difficult to impart meaning or convey deep emotion with stories about good people being decent to each other in a peaceful, ordinary setting.

A fluffy slice-of-life story can be a good palate cleanser in the same way that a glass of milk or a little bit of ginger can, but would you want to live your whole life eating nothing but ginger and drinking nothing but milk? That's not to say that there aren't places for genuinely good individuals in fiction, anything but. However, that is always going to be in the context of a generally good character playing off of less than good characters and situations or vice-versa.

On a somewhat related note, "good" cannot exist in a vacuum. It's a meaningless idea on its own in the same way that "cold" is meaningless without heat. Furthermore, there's the issue of nuance: stories about perfectly good, normal people in completely ordinary situations with no real conflict are just as jarring and unrealistic as the polar opposite, because real people and situations are nuanced; to use the old color metaphor nothing and no one is perfectly black and white, nor are they "grey"; everyone and everything is a rainbow, a panoply of different and often contradictory motivations, causes, emotions, and goals.

I know this is unfair to you but this is sort of the prime example of how people view anything that isn't dark and dismal.

As if white means fluffy clouds, and rainbows and no more traffic accidents.

Rather than... say...

The Liars Game Live Action Show

Where people are put into a game where they betray one another and put them into crippling lifelong debt.

It is a "Grey and White" show.

But really "Good" doesn't mean flawless... It means the person doesn't stoop. They are the beacon that chases away the darkness. :P

A "Whole picture" isn't "shades of grey" a whole picture is when you have Black, White, and Grey together.

That's... pretty much half what I was saying, man. That good stories aren't homogeneous, and if they involve moral absolutes in characters, it's in the context of those characters interacting with people and situations which don't align with their own morality. The other half being that realistic characters and situations aren't "Good" or "Bad" or "X Parts Good, Y Parts Bad," which is what the use of 'grey' in reference to black and white morality tends to imply. People aren't perfectly consistent, they don't fit into a neat place on some morality slider bar in everything they do; likewise, the morality of a situation or decision is highly contextual and tends to vary based on the morality and ethics of the individual observing it.

I will assert that any character who can be accurately described as always acting as if their actions really were pegged to a specific place on a sliding scale from capital-G Good to capital-E Evil, regardless of where they fall, is not a realistic person. They may function perfectly well as a character despite this, of course, but there's always going to be something off about them. The best characters, particularly viewpoint characters, are ones with realistic -- which is to say varied and not necessarily consistent -- behavior. Batman is a more interesting and compelling character than Superman not because he is darker or less straightforwardly "good", but because he is more human. He has meaningful faults, virtues, turning points, and attempts to maintain an ethical code which makes sense to him as a person, rather than in the context of external judgements.

Characters who are uniformly heroic, well-intended, and good-for-the-sake-of-good are just as horribly boring as characters who are uniformly evil, malicious, and evil-for-the-sake-of-evil. The only thing worse than that is either a character who is evil or good because the plot demands it -- that is, because the person writing them is so lazy that they have to make their characters act in accordance with the actions necessary to advance the plot, rather than what their knowledge and personality would lead them to do. On a note related to superheroes, this is one of the central failings of Worm as a story: characters made stupid decisions because the plot needs to advance and the story needs to be grimderp, not because they're legitimately that stupid and socially inept, and the inconsistency tends to be handwaved as "Oh, it's just their shards fucking with their heads and driving them towards conflict."

It's also why so much of 40K fiction is utter dross, because so many people enjoy writing it exactly as it's generally portrayed, where every character in every faction is some shade of evil, stupid, and dogmatic (or shining pure good, if you buy the lines sold by various propaganda departments, but especially the one that gets certain people all hot and bothered over the smurfs and everyone's favorite Spiritual Liege). It's why Abnett's novels are among the most popular and Rogue Trader is as successful as it is: they're more nuanced and interesting both in terms of the overall setting used and the specific characters involved in the plots.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75848 on: May 06, 2015, 11:19:09 pm »

Quote
Characters who are uniformly heroic, well-intended, and good-for-the-sake-of-good are just as horribly boring

Yep Batman is definitely the most boring Super hero of them all.

Vash the Stampede? Definitely the most boring anime character.

Belle from Beauty and the Beast... Boring!

Sherlock Holmes? Boring!

Detective Conan? Boring!

Nao from Liars game... Boring! Shingi after the halfway point? BORING!

MLP? Boring! Just the entire thing.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:23:57 pm by Neonivek »
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Bohandas

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75849 on: May 06, 2015, 11:20:59 pm »

Quote
Characters who are uniformly heroic, well-intended, and good-for-the-sake-of-good are just as horribly boring

Yep Batman is definitely the most boring Super hero of them all.

Well he cancels it out by being spooky-for-the-sake-of-spooky
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Flying Dice

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75850 on: May 06, 2015, 11:24:08 pm »

Quote
Characters who are uniformly heroic, well-intended, and good-for-the-sake-of-good are just as horribly boring

Yep Batman is definitely the most boring Super hero of them all.

I get the feeling you're trying to make a point here of some sort... but I have absolutely no bloody clue what it is. I can't even tell if you're being sarcastic or not. Spell it out, please.

If you were being completely serious and suggesting that that describes Batman, you must have been reading and watching a radically different Batman than I have, even discounting the recent films. 'Cause just about the only unquestionably "good" aspect of his personal philosophy is his no-killing rule, and that has some pretty nasty side effects, given his unwillingness to let other people hero in Gotham and the revolving door at Arkham.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75851 on: May 06, 2015, 11:27:05 pm »

Batman IS a paragon super-good hero and has often been described as the "Goodest most pure hero one can be".

He is the best "we" can be. He never EVER breaks down and becomes like the scum he cleans up and the only reason he does this is because some criminals are too dangerous or cannot be stopped by anyone else.

Sure there is a revolving door on Arkham but Batman never lets that be what defines him. He never bows down to a corrupt system and become corrupt himself... and in many ways that is what makes him more interesting.

He is the Dark Knight.

What makes the 40k universe boring for storytelling is that... Nothing matters. There are no stakes, you just chose your poison. Even the greatest and truest of heroes in that universe are more then happy to eat babies if they as much as got hungry (and this is canonical)

40k makes a great setting because it is a universe in continuous balance between universal destroyers... and thus you can basically create epic battles. great for a game. Everyone is a world destroying monster who would take over the universe given half the chance, but they are balanced out by the fact that everyone else can easily destroy the universe.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:33:31 pm by Neonivek »
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flabort

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75852 on: May 06, 2015, 11:31:38 pm »

It snowed today. I thought winter was over, but apparently, May is month that it snows in now.

...do you live in Alaska or something?
Nope, central Alberta.
I know. I overheard while getting gas that there were 8 inches west of us.

Hmm, finally found another Albertan... :P
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75853 on: May 06, 2015, 11:39:23 pm »

.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 10:12:30 pm by penguinofhonor »
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Bohandas

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #75854 on: May 06, 2015, 11:40:13 pm »

My WTF for today is that I just noticed that the classic Simpsons episode "Krusty Gets Busted" was a direct knockoff of a Garfield and Friends episode ("Binky Goes Bad") that aired half a year previously.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 11:43:18 pm by Bohandas »
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