Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 4933 4934 [4935] 4936 4937 ... 11055

Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14849940 times)

Orange Wizard

  • Bay Watcher
  • mou ii yo
    • View Profile
    • S M U G
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74010 on: April 12, 2015, 05:31:56 pm »

Sorry if this is too blunt, but did you read any of the article you posted?
Yes, and it was overwhelmingly stupid.

Quote from: the article
Multiple studies support Pao’s claim that women are less likely than men to successfully negotiate higher salaries and advancement in their careers.
“The research evidence is overwhelming,” Adam Grant, who has partnered with Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg on her Lean In campaign, told Mashable. “The data are also clear that when women negotiate assertively, they are often penalized for violating communal gender stereotypes.”
Notably, if you're an "ambitious charming woman" you're still less likely to succeed than an ambitious charming man. This isn't just a problem of women asking less.
Can I see these studies? Otherwise this is just baseless marxism.

You know that's not going to happen. They'll just offer the flat 50k because it costs them less.
Capitalism sucks. Change is going to come about in the cheapest way possible, because that's the way most things happen. That is an additional problem to deal with, not a reason to keep discrimination happening.
I ask again: what discrimination?
Logged
Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

scrdest

  • Bay Watcher
  • Girlcat?/o_ o
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74011 on: April 12, 2015, 05:33:33 pm »

Could be offering means they most likely won't. They'll give you the minimum they think you'll accept - if they care about the employee being you, specifically - and tell you to take it or leave it. All it's gonna accomplish is select for people of either gender who take what they're given and sit quietly instead of people of either gender who are looking to strike a mutually satisfactory deal.

This is not a progressive policy, that's a Gilded Era policy in futuristic clothing.

If they weren't willing to give people more then they wouldn't have had negotiations in the first place. If the base is $50,000 and half of people negotiated up to $54,000 a year, offering everyone $52,000 does not cost them anything and gives them this free publicity.
No. They are willing to go up the 4k because the alternative is that this particular candidate A walks away. Meanwhile candidate B is perfectly content with his 50k, because he was expecting 48k but got more.

If you offer 52k to everyone, all the employees who would have negotiated up to 54k are dissatisfied, whereas those who were content with 50k are, from the company's perspective, overpaid - since they would happily work for 2k less.

The company is willing to pay as much as 54k for an employee, because that's what their maximum value for an employee in a such and such position is, but they will try to minimise this value in their own self-interest. The employee is willing to accept as little as 54k, because that's the lower limit of his estimate of the value of his own work, but he will try to maximize this value in his own self-interest.

If we were to adjust your example, they'd have to give EVERYONE 54k, which costs them quite a bit. Only this way both groups are satisfied, but then the company is overpaying half of their employees 4k over what both parties would be satisfied with.
Logged
We are doomed. It's just that whatever is going to kill us all just happens to be, from a scientific standpoint, pretty frickin' awesome.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74012 on: April 12, 2015, 05:36:56 pm »

As well 54k what jobs are we talking about?
Logged

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74013 on: April 12, 2015, 05:38:34 pm »

Otherwise this is just baseless marxism.
Earth to OW, are you reading me? You're starting to lapse into unintelligible ranting territory.
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑

Orange Wizard

  • Bay Watcher
  • mou ii yo
    • View Profile
    • S M U G
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74014 on: April 12, 2015, 05:39:38 pm »

Otherwise this is just baseless marxism.
Earth to OW, are you reading me? You're starting to lapse into unintelligible ranting territory.
YOU BLOODY COMMIES AND YOUR SOCIALITES, DRAGGING THIS COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND
Logged
Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74015 on: April 12, 2015, 05:42:37 pm »

Guys I found out something...

This whole thing? Is apperantly a lie xD

According to the statistics I pulled... When a company states OUTRIGHT that wages are negotiable...

Women not only negotiate wages as much as men, but often MORE often then men. (and NO ONE... absolutely NO ONE... cares about discrimination against men)

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18511

So no, this company just wants to save money off of wages... or at least is choosing the cheaper way.

Besides we all know that "Gender inequality" isn't in starting wages anyhow. At least not entirely.

---

I just don't like adding negative rights to accommodate equality.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 05:53:11 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74016 on: April 12, 2015, 05:54:35 pm »

Otherwise this is just baseless marxism.
Earth to OW, are you reading me? You're starting to lapse into unintelligible ranting territory.
YOU BLOODY COMMIES AND YOUR SOCIALITES, DRAGGING THIS COUNTRY INTO THE GROUND
BLOODY LEFTYES, GET A REAL JOB!
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74017 on: April 12, 2015, 05:55:36 pm »

Actually saying it is baseless Marxism is kind of correct :P

Not that it should mean anything.
Logged

ArKFallen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bohandean Desserter
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74018 on: April 12, 2015, 06:01:37 pm »

http://www.nber.org/papers/w18511
Do you have a copy? I don't really want to trust either end of the spectrum's interpretation of the findings. Also unwilling to subscribe or other shit. If you do will you share?
Regardless thanks for finding opposing research, google-fu's first results were all on the other end and it takes time to find freely available research.

(and NO ONE... absolutely NO ONE... cares about discrimination against men)
Pretty much. Men are the category stereotyped for getting results so shits aren't given.

I just don't like adding negative rightsremoving viable options to accommodate equality.
Can I interpret the slashed to mean the underlined? Else-wise I don't really understand what you are saying.
Logged
Hm, have you considered murder?  It's either that or letting it go.
SigText
I logged back on ;_;

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74019 on: April 12, 2015, 06:04:43 pm »

I cannot remember the term...

There are rights which are "The right to fresh water"

Then there are right which are "The right not to be tortured for information"

Positive Rights versus Negative Rights

I don't believe in making people equal by making them incapable of shining. That is an extremist egalitarian notion to me. Even if it would lead to discrimination, it is worse then the discrimination.

I mean look, the women aren't benefiting from this in any way EXCEPT that their starting wages are the same as men's. They aren't earning more, they aren't being treated better, they aren't being respected more in the workplace.

In fact women earn less with this deal.

Yet they are equal right?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 06:10:59 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

penguinofhonor

  • Bay Watcher
  • Minister of Love
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74020 on: April 12, 2015, 06:10:38 pm »

.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 12:35:08 pm by penguinofhonor »
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74021 on: April 12, 2015, 06:12:48 pm »

Really? You want to believe that a company out of the goodness of their heart made a policy that would save them money while also taking accolades for being progressive?

By taking away wage negotiation, something only the worst jobs you never want do and hurts everyone?

It just bugs me.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 06:15:55 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

ArKFallen

  • Bay Watcher
  • Bohandean Desserter
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74022 on: April 12, 2015, 06:31:23 pm »

Ah. I begin to grasp. So the framing is important. I was thinking along the lines of "the option to negotiate" was being removed and you are on "the right to not negotiate and maintain economic parity".

A lot of the other studies are on people's reaction to women negotiating (as opposed to analysis of tons of salaries, not sure how easy those are to get), and it's pretty clear they get judged for it. The exact effects of that are less clear, but I can definitely say it's a little early to be jumping on the "this whole thing is a lie" boat.
By that response agreeing with the conclusions is also jumping the gun. Also note that humans have a propensity to judge any and everything and when it comes to people often with emotional responses. We also don't know how much of these responses are primarily biological.
This says no difference in response to negotiation if the women is being negotiated with while this says "female evaluators penalized all candidates for initiating negotiations". (I am sorry if the context doesn't match well I'm trying to piece this together quickly-ish, if you have the time to read both abstracts I recommend it).

My point, in a shell nut, is that we seem to not really have anything concrete and that you are right it is early to say "lie" but it is also early to say "likely". People do things as individuals(including groupthink) and the people who think in categories tend to forget that. (Also probably directing this at the wrong person but whatever)
Logged
Hm, have you considered murder?  It's either that or letting it go.
SigText
I logged back on ;_;

Wolfhunter107

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74023 on: April 12, 2015, 06:32:33 pm »

https://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ZdA8amol6IQ
Starrrrr trekkin' across the universe...
Logged
Just ask yourself: What would a mobster do?
So we butcher them and build a 4chan tallow soap tower as a monument to our greatness?

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #74024 on: April 12, 2015, 06:33:02 pm »

I am oddly passionate given I don't negotiate my wages. xD
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 4933 4934 [4935] 4936 4937 ... 11055