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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14843622 times)

Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63525 on: November 17, 2014, 04:37:02 pm »

WTF this thread

I no know what going on
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63526 on: November 17, 2014, 04:38:11 pm »

On the whole linear thing, a recent R.E. class of mine was talking about Resurrection. In this some scholar boy, I think it was Hick, said that two people identically made are the same person, and someone else replied (Can't recall name:Must look up later) that Hick confuses the concept of identical and the same.

I agree with the latter: Something made identically is not the same, just as two blocks of wood of exactly the same mass, colour, weight etc. are not the same.
Not really, since a person is an abstract concept, defined by a set of remembered experiences and how inputs are processed. For all purposes of being a person there would be no difference between the person in your brain now and a functioning perfect copy also made now. There would be no differing events to shape them into different people, they're the same person.
That's a good point. But wouldn't knowing you were a copy, not the original, ultimately change the memories. What you know of as false, you tend to discard.

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.

And wow, those were some disturbing ninjas.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63527 on: November 17, 2014, 04:40:45 pm »

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.
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Graknorke

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63528 on: November 17, 2014, 04:43:44 pm »

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Not really, the hard drive will be different in form, where the data is stored, etc. Copying the person would be literally the same arrangement of particles, copied perfectly. No imperfections in transfer for the sake of the hypothetical. Teleporting a person perfectly like this is no different than just having them wait where they are in terms of killing them. The memories and thought patterns and brain connections persist, they're just in a different place. It's more like copying a digital file than copying the physical medium it's stored on, in terms of what changes.

Also two of those ninjas were me. Step up your game dwarfy.
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63529 on: November 17, 2014, 04:44:14 pm »

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.

I love it when things are perfectly useless. Such perfection with no function! :P

But nah, of course they do. When things are separate, they go through separate things. A hard drive may start with the same stuff won't end with it. A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
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Helgoland

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63530 on: November 17, 2014, 04:52:33 pm »

When things are separate, they go through separate things.
Heh, this is more clear and elegant than like 70% of philosophy.
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Graknorke

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63531 on: November 17, 2014, 04:56:57 pm »

A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
Experiencing a thing is mutually exclusive with not experiencing that thing. Who would have thought.
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Bouchart

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63532 on: November 17, 2014, 04:59:50 pm »

I got a phone call today.  The caller ID said "New York Human."  I picked up.  Nobody was on the other end.  Then a machine said "Goodbye" and hung up.
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Sergarr

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63533 on: November 17, 2014, 05:00:04 pm »

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.

I love it when things are perfectly useless. Such perfection with no function! :P

But nah, of course they do. When things are separate, they go through separate things. A hard drive may start with the same stuff won't end with it. A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
That's because things are defined by their surroundings.

Let's take a mental experiment: take a random person, make an exact copy ofthat person and then put them both through the exactly same physical experiences (down to a quantum level; yes, this is impossible in reality, but - thought experiment). Will they end up different, or the same?
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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63534 on: November 17, 2014, 05:00:35 pm »

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.

I love it when things are perfectly useless. Such perfection with no function! :P

But nah, of course they do. When things are separate, they go through separate things. A hard drive may start with the same stuff won't end with it. A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
I see, so your definition of "original" actually means "the version that stays in the same place as before it was copied". My mistake, that does have some uses. But now tell me, sir, are there any objective context-free benefits that being the "original" gives you (except possibly a lack of existential angst)?
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63535 on: November 17, 2014, 05:08:19 pm »

Teleportation is the creation of an identical person, only in a different place. Not only is the following likely to be the case:

That's a good point. But wouldn't knowing you were a copy, not the original, ultimately change the memories. What you know of as false, you tend to discard.

You will also immediately undergo change from the different environment around you. So you will start with a different mentality than the original, if even slightly, and the original will be gone. Abolished. It can never experience or think these things.

With the right mental conditioning, you could make yourself the exact same...but the point is that, were the original to survive, it would almost instantaneously be different from the new creation.

And more ninjas. Huzzah, less weird ones! :P

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.

I love it when things are perfectly useless. Such perfection with no function! :P

But nah, of course they do. When things are separate, they go through separate things. A hard drive may start with the same stuff won't end with it. A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
That's because things are defined by their surroundings.

Let's take a mental experiment: take a random person, make an exact copy ofthat person and then put them both through the exactly same physical experiences (down to a quantum level; yes, this is impossible in reality, but - thought experiment). Will they end up different, or the same?

Different. Every decision a human makes is almost random, based around some natural/imposed restrictions. There are a variety of viable options that exist within a given situation which could equally be chosen. For example, one could check the window, the other the door.

As for the original concept, in which the original copy is destroyed, that essentially kills you and leaves a copy. A computer harddrive with the same data on it may function the same, but the two separate harddrives are still that-separate.
Nobody cares whether they are separate or not, as long as they do the same thing. Your definition of "original" is hence perfectly useless, which means that you will never be able to derive any meaningful statements using that definition.

I love it when things are perfectly useless. Such perfection with no function! :P

But nah, of course they do. When things are separate, they go through separate things. A hard drive may start with the same stuff won't end with it. A human teleported and destroyed will experience different things than their original would have done.
I see, so your definition of "original" actually means "the version that stays in the same place as before it was copied". My mistake, that does have some uses. But now tell me, sir, are there any objective context-free benefits that being the "original" gives you (except possibly a lack of existential angst)?

No. Just like there are no real benefits to being a different person entirely, e.g. if you took some DNA and created a new person from the original. They would have no benefit over the original. We're not arguing benefit, really, just that they would in effect be different people, albeit very slightly at first.

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Levi

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63536 on: November 17, 2014, 05:10:29 pm »

For the record, I wouldn't care if I was a copy.  Even if I was a slightly out of sync one. 

That goes double if it means I can travel to places in an instant.
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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63537 on: November 17, 2014, 05:11:19 pm »

I got a phone call today.  The caller ID said "New York Human."  I picked up.  Nobody was on the other end.  Then a machine said "Goodbye" and hung up.
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TD1

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63538 on: November 17, 2014, 05:11:39 pm »

For the record, I wouldn't care if I was a copy.  Even if I was a slightly out of sync one. 

That goes double if it means I can travel to places in an instant.
It would matter to me, I think, though if it were a cultural norm I might think otherwise.
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pisskop

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #63539 on: November 17, 2014, 05:11:58 pm »

this whole thread.  this is like trying to say that you are the same person you were 50 seconds ago.
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