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[Graknorke]

Netherlands population density: 404 per kmē
United Kingdom population density: 257 per kmē
USA population density: 34 per kmē

Think that has anything to do with it?

In the USA a lot of people live in smaller towns where you're more or less forced into interacting with the people there. In more densely populated countries you don't really have to go very far to meet people outside of your immediate neighbourhood.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

For example, if I were in a knife fight and I were standing beside AqizzarMaximumZero, I know the dude would have my back 

Remember, he's already beaten carsTRUCKS CAREENING AT HIM.

[GlyphGryph]

It's an assumed tribe. You can do the same with a pro football team, meetup group, or internet forum.

Basically, yeah. And the in the US, a "church" is just an assumed tribe with tax-empt status and lots more leeway in fundraising.

Think that has anything to do with it?

Yeah, I was gonna comment on that - and it's not just density, but total size. In the Netherlands, practically the entire country lives right on top of each other. It's pretty much literally impossible to live "far away" from someone. In an environment like that, there's a lot less pressure to be friends with the people you live near, since you live near absolutely everyone in the country pretty much.

[Octobomb]

For example, if I were in a knife fight and I were standing beside AqizzarMaximumZero, I know the dude would have my back 

Remember, he's already beaten cars.

... If Hans and Max had my back in a knife fight, I don't know if I would be terrified or feel awesome. Or both.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Maybe compare population densities in two cities? I still think you'd have Europe generally denser than the US, but I expect the huge swaths of barren dustbowl and corn will throw off the average density when taking the US as a whole.

[XXSockXX]

It might just be effective to think of many American churches as clubs, honestly.

Yeah, I think the club comparison works well. Clubs used to be very very important in Europe, it's where most political parties originated from in the 19th century. You can easily start one for whatever hobby or purpose you have, many are free or don't cost that much.
They are in decline though too, since many people don't like the whole being a card-carrying member of an organization thing. This may be a shift towards more loose organization, based on single-instance or particular interests, but also a shift in general interests. Younger people rather organize a concert at an autonomous (that means not overseen by social workers) youth center than join their parent's gardening club.

Also the pub thing, at a village pub or beer garden you might find plenty of families in the afternoon. There are many that double as restaurants and it's really more about meeting with friends than the drinking aspect. There are ones that are for night-life exclusively too, but most towns have plenty of both.

Population density is important I think. If you live in a small town you can easily walk to the next in many cases. I grew up in a village (with around 10 000 people nonetheless), but I went to school in another town and thanks to public transport spent a lot of my free time in nearby bigger towns, wherever there was something interesting happening.

[Putnam]

Hermaaaeeeuuus Moooraaa is a spriiite!

AE HERMA MORA! NU-MANTIA! AE CHIM CE ALTADOON!

[GlyphGryph]

Of course, even in US cities there's a lot of pride, attachment to, and involvement in "your neighbourhood" - which might just be a few blocks, or an entire city in it's own right, but you've still got pride for where you come from and a sort of "instant bond" with anyone that comes from the same place. I'm assuming that part isn't America-specific, honestly. Many places are absurdly proud of "townies" - people who grew up there, and still live there, and its expected that while you may (if you're successful) go out and explore the world for a few years, you eventually come back home to live with the "extended family" that is your neighbourhood again.

Note that your exact neighbours aren't necessarily part of the neighbourhood. There are many people who live in a town that are not part of the local community - but they are also treated as such, as outsiders, by the people who are, so there is that bit too. The closer an urban center there is nearby, the more "out-of-towner residents" you're likely to have - but that's part and parcel of the whole suburbanization thing, where they aren't coming to live in this town, they're coming to be in easy commuting distance of the city.

It's why there's so much kickback against "gentrification" in the US - it's the process where "neighbourhoods" are replaced by "strangers who live next to you", and it's something a lot of people here hate and for incredibly good (if ultimately selfish) reasons. You can't have a community with the sort of folks who are essentially just passing through until the next opportunity arises.

anyway, hah, this conversation should probably get it's own thread if we're going to continue it, esp. since it's drifted quite a bit.

[cerapa]

Netherlands population density: 404 per kmē
United Kingdom population density: 257 per kmē
USA population density: 34 per kmē

Think that has anything to do with it?

Estonia population density: 29 per kmē

We don't have any of that stuff around here, so its not a direct correlation.

But wow. Was expecting that to be a little bit higher. The calling of a town of 10 000 a village should have tipped me off though. I live in a city of around 8 000 people, which pretty much counts as a regional centre.

[XXSockXX]

-snip-

That's exactly the same here. In a village, you are considered a bit of an outsider - not necessarily in a hostile sense -, even if you lived there for 20 years. Bigger towns are more anonymous, but attachment to neighborhoods is a big thing.

And "gentrification" is an issue too. In Berlin there is an extreme backlash against people from Southern Germany moving to the "hip" neighbourhoods. There are even "Don't buy from Swabians" graffiti. It's gotten quite insane like that.

But wow. Was expecting that to be a little bit higher. The calling of a town of 10 000 a village should have tipped me off though. I live in a city of around 8 000 people, which pretty much counts as a regional centre.

That may be a pecularity of German administration. Whether you can call yourself a "Stadt" (=town) is based on rights and privileges your town aquired at some point in time. The smallest "Stadt" in Germany has around 4000 people IIRC, until a few years ago the biggest "Dorf" (=village) had around 20 000. Often several villages are grouped together for administrative purposes into larger "Gemeinden" (=communities). The particular one I grew up in actually consists of three bigger and three tiny villages, which have grown together and have been "melted" into one for administrative purposes.

[Frumple]

... yeah, towns get a lot smaller than that here in the states. Place I grew up in had a population of like five t'six hundred, nearest other town a good 12-15 miles away. No public transportation between 'em, of course, unless you count school buses.

E: Also, there were at least three churches within walking distance. Two that I can recall inside city limits, one just outside of it. Probably more I'm forgetting, the area was lousy with the things.

[Dutchling]

Heh. I lived in a village/town of ~100k people and later moved to a city of ~40k

[GlyphGryph]

That's exactly the same here. In a village, you are considered a bit of an outsider - not necessarily in a hostile sense -, even if you lived there for 20 years. Bigger towns are more anonymous, but attachment to neighborhoods is a big thing.

To tie it to the community thing though, involving yourself in these sort of "community events" can very quickly push you to "insider" status - joining the local church is often the "fast-track-route" to becoming part of the local community. People can choose to stop being "outsiders" pretty quickly if they are so inclined - most places are pretty welcoming so long as you make the effort.

[XXSockXX]

Heh. I lived in a village/town of ~100k people and later moved to a city of ~40k

Ah, that reminds me that I also tend to use "town" and "city" somewhat inconsistently because both translate to "Stadt" in German. If "town" is just taken to mean "settlement", the village/city distinction isn't that important.

To tie it to the community thing though, involving yourself in these sort of "community events" can very quickly push you to "insider" status - joining the local church is often the "fast-track-route" to becoming part of the local community. People can choose to stop being "outsiders" pretty quickly if they are so inclined - most places are pretty welcoming so long as you make the effort.

Basically yes, but it depends. At least where I live language plays an important role, people who can't speak the local dialects are always considered a bit "different". If you choose to participate in the local community you can become an insider quickly, it's just that joining a church (there really are only 2 anyway, catholic or protestant) will not help you much here. Except of course if you belong to a religious minority that is.
Then also the place where they live is for many people not necessarily the center of their social activities, because distance is less of an issue.

[Yoink]

My "home town" is the city I currently live in.
Not sure I feel any particular kinship with the average citizen, at least until out-of-state folk are involved in the conversation.