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[XXSockXX]

Yet he ordered the attempted denial of the evacuation with the Luftwaffe, he had no qualms about killing them. Could be just as likely that he wanted them to surrender though.

Yeah, obviously he was lying when he said he wouldn't want to kill them. That was just propaganda and probably part of the weird attempts to win England over to his side. He didn't care much about his own people or anyone for that matter.

Disregarding state-funded history books, most of them talk about how all the Europeans except Italy wanted to go to waagh.
Really tells a lot about a country's government in the way they talk about their history.

I definitely did learn in school that pretty much everybody wanted war. That's part of what I was talking about with the naive euphoria. Even many german socialdemocrats were like "War? Hm. Against the French? Ok, we're in." (re-enacted scene may slightly differ from real events  )

[Loud Whispers]

"Ohh and then the Pilgrims met the Indians and they shared pumpkin pie and lived happily ever after until the Indians started shooting the pilgrims with arrows, and that is why we put them on reservations"

'Reservations, so what, like they went on holiday?'

'Yes Jimmy... Extended holiday. To a nice farm somewhere up North, with other native Americans.'

[Lord Shonus]

Disregarding state-funded history books, most of them talk about how all the Europeans except Italy wanted to go to waagh.
Really tells a lot about a country's government in the way they talk about their history.

That's quite strange, since I've never even seen a history book (and I've seen tens of thousands of history books) from before the college level that presented anything except the "big accident" explanation.

[Truean]

http://www.wkbn.com/2013/06/19/court-to-hear-fee-debate-in-cleveland-killings/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

COLUMBUS, Ohio (AP) — The Ohio Supreme Court has ordered a lower court to decide a debate over fees paid to attorneys of a Cleveland man who killed 11 women.

Attorney John Parker is challenging a decision by a Cuyahoga County judge to cap attorney’s fees in the case of serial killer Anthony Sowell. Parker says it resulted in an hourly rate of only $18.50 for a 10-week trial.

Parker argues lawyers must be fairly compensated, especially in capital cases, and also says the fees issue could be used by Sowell for an ineffective counsel claim.

Prosecutors say because the cap was imposed after trial, no such claim could be brought.

The Supreme Court ruled Wednesday that a Cleveland appeals court should decide.

Sowell killed 11 women between June 2007 and July 2009.

Let me get this straight? You take on the representation of a capital murder defendant (the state can potentially execute him) and some judge thinks that a little more than $18/hour is a fair wage for a 10 week trial determining if a person will literally lose their life? Keep in mind this is a senior attorney who has gone through years and years of hoops, additional classes, repeatedly to maintain his death penalty case certification, etc etc etc. $18/hour for an attorney with decades of experience and special certifications and skills?

....

I'm sorry but how exactly is this supposed to even keep up the pretense of being fair?

I'm reminded of a line from an old NGRI case (Not guilty by reason of insanity):

"Some people see things as they are and ask why? Others see things as they never were and are insane."

[Sirus]

I take it $18 an hour is considered low?

[Neonivek]

Sort of reminds me when these teachers were gagged (specifically they were forced to be unable to strike) so what they did is they revoked all extracurricular which were things they weren't paid for on contract.

The thing with Lawyer feas is that the pay is also supposed to represent how much work they do when they are not in court and not with the defendant in question.

18 dollars an hour for a Lawyer in a murder case is essentially less then minimum wage. As well it is something a lawyer could have easily made up had they not had this obligation.

[Tellemurius]

Dude screw that, that is a joke of a wage, a college grad makes more than that out the door.

[Lord Shonus]

I take it $18 an hour is considered low?

Would you trust your life to someone making only $18 an hour?

[XXSockXX]

Disregarding state-funded history books, most of them talk about how all the Europeans except Italy wanted to go to waagh.
Really tells a lot about a country's government in the way they talk about their history.

That's quite strange, since I've never even seen a history book (and I've seen tens of thousands of history books) from before the college level that presented anything except the "big accident" explanation.

It was in my textbooks (these being obviously Germany-centric, so WW1 is important). There is no college level here, but if you go for the highest possible school degree and keep history as a subject you should have that in your books.

[penguinofhonor]

Dude screw that, that is a joke of a wage, a college grad makes more than that out the door.

Please tell me where to make more than 18 dollars an hour as a college graduate. I know many college graduates working for around half that who would love this knowledge.

[Sirus]

* Sirus wistfully imagines making 18 bucks an hour

That's more than twice what my previous highest wage was. Welp.

I take it $18 an hour is considered low?

Would you trust your life to someone making only $18 an hour?

Guess how much plenty of people in vital jobs make. It's much less than that.

[Neonivek]

Think of it this way Sirus.

That lawyer is not being paid to look over evidence, contact witnesses, or prepare for court.

[Tellemurius]

Dude screw that, that is a joke of a wage, a college grad makes more than that out the door.

Please tell me where to make more than 18 dollars an hour as a college graduate. I know many college graduates working for around half that who would love this knowledge.

Don't take liberal Arts or Historical degrees

Utah so far has crapton of CS jobs

[Flying Dice]

* Sirus wistfully imagines making 18 bucks an hour

That's more than twice what my previous highest wage was. Welp.

I take it $18 an hour is considered low?

Would you trust your life to someone making only $18 an hour?

Guess how much plenty of people in vital jobs make. It's much less than that.

Heh. $8.20/hour, and if I or one of my co-workers screw up, we could potentially cause the deaths of hundreds of people. A short crew with mostly new hires (who get paid even less) could very easily result in injuries or deaths if a superior didn't pay enough attention, even without an emergency situation not caused by incompetence (not helped by the fact that the people above us are neither paid particularly well for their skillsets nor other... issues).

[Hanslanda]

$18 dollars an hour is 8 more dollars than I've ever been paid for anything. That's manager stuff, round here.