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[Nadaka]

People talking about how the bide is impossible
you do know tyhat in order to take the bible as truth in the first place you have to acapt the idea of a god who is all powerful in which case all of these "problmes" would not be problems

you cant just take the "parts we cant do" and ingore the base idea thta God can do anything, thats not how the bible is meant to be take, now before you say it I'm not saying you HAVE to belive in god, just if you dont anyways then looking at the bible serves no pupours when it comes to "debunking it" as even the bible cites all theser things to god

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What's up with the atheistic elithism anyway?

Why does all faith have to be naive, stupid, archaic nonsense just because that's what you believe it to be.

It isn't elitism. It doesn't matter what I believe, by definition faith is naive, stupid, archaic nonsense in your own words. Faith requires you to believe even if the preponderance of evidence is against it, even if what you believe is contradicted, not only by objective outside references, but by itself. Faith is inherently irrational.

[i2amroy]

What's up with the atheistic elithism anyway?
Why does all faith have to be naive, stupid, archaic nonsense just because that's what you believe it to be.

Probably because there is a higher percentage of people on the side of faith that give logic-less answers like "just believe and it will all make sense" then there are atheists saying "just don't believe in god and religion is stupid". It's not that faith or belief are stupid, it's just that they seem to have a higher percentage of illogical people then atheism does. If a religion could come right out and give reasons backed up by logic for everything rather then involving various deities then I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to switch right there. That said if you want I would happily debate more reasons for/against various religions and their involvement in logic, but this isn't the thread for that.

[kaijyuu]

I'll pop in and agree that faith is indeed, stupid.

Belief is different though, and I'll only accept that as stupid if you can find some sort of logical contradiction that people are ignoring (note: you can find a lot of those in the vast majority of organized religions).

[10ebbor10]

What's up with the atheistic elithism anyway?
Why does all faith have to be naive, stupid, archaic nonsense just because that's what you believe it to be.

Probably because there is a higher percentage of people on the side of faith that give logic-less answers like "just believe and it will all make sense" then there are atheists saying "just don't believe in god and religion is stupid".

We're five to one here. Other places appear to have similair effects.

I'll pop in and agree that faith is indeed, stupid.

Belief is different though, and I'll only accept that as stupid if you can find some sort of logical contradiction that people are ignoring (note: you can find a lot of those in the vast majority of organized religions).

Faith is defined, as per wikipedia, as belief in a God.

It isn't elitism. It doesn't matter what I believe, by definition faith is naive, stupid, archaic nonsense in your own words. Faith requires you to believe even if the preponderance of evidence is against it, even if what you believe is contradicted, not only by objective outside references, but by itself. Faith is inherently irrational.

Your intrepretation of [Insert religious text here] might be outdated, naive, stupid and archaic. Doesn't mean my have to be. Adding to that, faith is not inherently irrational, just often non-rational. Blind faith against superior evidence might be irrational, depending on the circumstances.

[RedWarrior0]

Also, the idiots are more outspoken about everything. Always.

[Nadaka]

Faith is inherently irrational. If your faith falters before evidence, it wasn't faith, merely belief.

[10ebbor10]

Faith is inherently irrational. If your faith falters before evidence, it wasn't faith, merely belief.

Different definition of faith than I was using. Yours seems to be more akin to blind faith rather than the dictionairy definitions I've been finding.

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability. 
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact. 
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims. 
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. 
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.

You seem to be gunnin for two, which is not an irrational thing. Just often nonrational. (It can even be rational, depending on the intrepretation.)

[pisskop]

What's up with the atheistic elithism anyway?
Why does all faith have to be naive, stupid, archaic nonsense just because that's what you believe it to be.

Probably because there is a higher percentage of people on the side of faith that give logic-less answers like "just believe and it will all make sense" then there are atheists saying "just don't believe in god and religion is stupid". It's not that faith or belief are stupid, it's just that they seem to have a higher percentage of illogical people then atheism does. If a religion could come right out and give reasons backed up by logic for everything rather then involving various deities then I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to switch right there. That said if you want I would happily debate more reasons for/against various religions and their involvement in logic, but this isn't the thread for that.

[And quote everything on this page]

Spoiler: my thoughts (click to show/hide)

Religion may be faith may based and unprovable either way (because prove that God in some fashion doesn't exist, using science or logic.  You can't) but it is responsible directly for almost everything in society in some fashion.  Religion continues to influence society, even if it has lost members amoung the working classes.  Religion is still a driving force behind the people in the government, it contiunues to be referenced, and our 'secular' ideals are based on and often coincide with those that religion preports.  I understand rebeling against christianity, it is our father's religion.  But to discredit it or every other faith because you don't like it or that it uses faith a a final binding agent, ignoring everything it produces is confounding.  Some of the best quotes, ideals, models, and anything else you can discover come from faith.  Incidently, some of the most desirable mates are genuinely religious.

Religion is one of my interests, and it irks me when somebody would bash it blindly without having sufficient experience with it or without studying it.  I post here because I assume most people here are smart, use logic, and are liberalish.  Its a good atmosphere to learn from what I may not agree with.  Also cuz Toady is [snip] and awesome.

That said religion is full of dumb mindelss sheeple and these are often quite outspoken.  In summation, science is only the lastest evolution in our thinking.  It will be replaced someday, only to be ridiculed by the next advancement. . .

[10ebbor10]

I agree with that one, except for the connotation that science and religion would similair succesive ways of thinking. I guess they are, in a way, but it's not like religion and myths were some kind of protoscience explanation of the world.

[RedWarrior0]

Anyways, let's talk about something that isn't a topic that is notorious for spiraling out of control and for which we have had threads that have gotten locked and stray back into the WTFery.

Purple tortoises climbing zebra-striped banana trees in the arctic sunset.

[10ebbor10]

Sea or land tortoises?

[misko27]

Sea or land tortoises?

Clearly of the land variety.

[i2amroy]

Purple tortoises climbing zebra-striped banana trees in the arctic sunset.

This sounds like something you would get out of one of those "each person says three words" stories.

Sea or land tortoises?

Per wikipedia tortoises are land dwelling, where as turtles can be either. So land tortoises.

[Dutchling]

Tortoises is just French for two turtles.

Trust me, it's true.

[Helgoland]

Faith is inherently irrational.

I'd prefer non-rational. Believing (!) that the world around us (or me) truly exists is non-rational as well, if you'll allow me to slide down the slippery slope[1]. So "atheist elitism" is quite fitting; saying that atheism (as opposed to agnosticism) is just another faith may be going a bit far, but there's a kernel of truth in it.
I'm fully sympathetic of dressing down dogmatic religious fucknuts[2] that deny 'experimental results' (as in 'dinosaur bones'); they truly are stupid, even though they on some level still have consistency, simply because their view of the world is - empiricistically speaking - useless.

[1] That was fun to type; fromm now on I'll use that expression more often.
[2] I find this word funny in a way similar to the insult cuntfucker; just think about it. Or maybe I'm just a bit childish. In any case, I should probably stop enlarging my vocabulary via Cyanide&Happiness.

FAKEEDIT: 7 cuntfucking relies? You've got to be canoodeling me!

I like turtles more than tortoises.