Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GlyphGryph]

It's a statistical test, and it cannot, and SHOULD not, be used to judge individual movies. It simply comments on sexism in the /industry/, that when there averages as many passes for women as there are for the male equivalent, it will be a strong indicator of success (though perhaps not complete)

One would still expect plenty of individual films not to pass, but that is completely irrelevant since it was never about individual films to begin with.

[Euld]

Yeah you don't use the Bechdel test to decide if a movie is good or not, you use it to decide if the movie is sexist or not... I think.  But honestly the requirements are amazingly simple.  Two women (not even main characters) talk to each other at least once on a subject that isn't related to men.  Seriously, you can put two women in a room together and this will spontaneously occur within seconds.  The movie Alien actually passed the test because it had a scene where two women talked about the alien.  Not the strongest example, but a good example of how easy it is.

[Darvi]

Funnily enough it's also possible to fail it in reverse.

[penguinofhonor]

Once you realize how simple it is, you realize how absurd it is that so many movies fail it, or marginally pass on like 5 seconds of dialogue.

Funnily enough it's also possible to fail it in reverse.

I'd be interested in seeing how many movies actually do. I could probably only think of one or two off the top of my head.

[Nadaka]

Yeah you don't use the Bechdel test to decide if a movie is good or not, you use it to decide if the movie is sexist or not... I think.  But honestly the requirements are amazingly simple.  Two women (not even main characters) talk to each other at least once on a subject that isn't related to men.  Seriously, you can put two women in a room together and this will spontaneously occur within seconds.  The movie Alien actually passed the test because it had a scene where two women talked about the alien.  Not the strongest example, but a good example of how easy it is.

I am pretty sure the alien represents a male character with all its phallic imagery and its orally penetrating reproduction method.

but GlyphGryph is correct. It isn't an indication sexism in a specific movie. It is an indication of the sexism in the movie industry. A movie that takes place inside a male prison is likely to have to fail the test, as may a movie about the romantic relationships of heterosexual women, both for reasonable reasons.

[Flying Dice]

The Bechdeltest and how many movies fail it! O.o

I guess this makes mine today.
More feminist bullshit. Saying that a film should have to have female main characters or else it obviously hates women. It sounds like one of these things where they're picking over something incredibly inane to pretend that women are some sort of oppressed slave class.

Nice strawman there. Did you make it yourself, or find it written on a bookmark in an old volume of How to Beat Your Wife? 

Did you even read what it measures? All a movie has to do to pass is have at least one scene (no matter how short) where 1. two female characters (named, if you follow a stricter standard) 2. talk about something 3. other than men.

Now think about how many movies fail it. Then think about how many movies fail the reverse (having at least one scene where two or more named male characters talk about something other than women). It's not about individual movies being sexist, it's about the industry as a whole having a decidedly (heterosexual) male-oriented slant.

I'm reallly sick of this neo-masculinism (andrinism?) thing where men use the fact that there are some admittedly crazy feminists to dismiss feminism as a whole. It's like saying that environmental activists are all lunatic nutjobs because of PETA. That, and it's a poorly disguised excuse for certain types of men to go right on being sexist assholes.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I am pretty sure the alien represents a male character with all its phallic imagery and its orally penetrating reproduction method.

But the alien also causes humans to "give birth", albeit by having their chest cavity exploded and the way the facehugger's egg opens is....well, watch that scene closely and you'll see what I mean.

It is less male or female than it is a disturbing perversion of human sexuality and violence. Hence why they called the movie Alien. (The original title was going to be "Star Beast" but Ridley Scott thought it was lame and accidentally capitalized the A in alien while writing dialogue and loved it.)

[Darvi]

Ah yes, the John Hurt scene, representing pregnancy since 1979.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah you don't use the Bechdel test to decide if a movie is good or not, you use it to decide if the movie is sexist or not... I think.

Nope, still wrong. Again, statistical. It tells you nothing about whether a given movie is sexist or not. It is possible for it to pass the test and still be sexist, and fail without being sexist. It's simply a statistical tool, meant as a commentary based on the trends of both the test and its inverse, to indicate sexism does exist in the industry.

[kaijyuu]

Funnily enough it's also possible to fail it in reverse.

I noticed a while back that girl targeted cartoons usually do fail the reverse test (MLP:FiM barely passes and only in a handful of episodes).

The test is a good indicator I think of target audience. The vast majority of mainstream media is targeted at men, assuming women will just watch whatever a man will. Thus, the content will almost always be about men and what men think and care about, and it shows the sexism in the industry (and not individual works, as previously mentioned).

[Lord Inquisitor]

http://www.macromeme.com/dog/learning-german.html
Where is this guide book?

[Graknorke]

The Bechdeltest and how many movies fail it! O.o

I guess this makes mine today.
More feminist bullshit. Saying that a film should have to have female main characters or else it obviously hates women. It sounds like one of these things where they're picking over something incredibly inane to pretend that women are some sort of oppressed slave class.

Nice strawman there. Did you make it yourself, or find it written on a bookmark in an old volume of How to Beat Your Wife? 

Did you even read what it measures? All a movie has to do to pass is have at least one scene (no matter how short) where 1. two female characters (named, if you follow a stricter standard) 2. talk about something 3. other than men.

Now think about how many movies fail it. Then think about how many movies fail the reverse (having at least one scene where two or more named male characters talk about something other than women). It's not about individual movies being sexist, it's about the industry as a whole having a decidedly (heterosexual) male-oriented slant.

I'm reallly sick of this neo-masculinism (andrinism?) thing where men use the fact that there are some admittedly crazy feminists to dismiss feminism as a whole. It's like saying that environmental activists are all lunatic nutjobs because of PETA. That, and it's a poorly disguised excuse for certain types of men to go right on being sexist assholes.

I'm saying that making a big deal about what happens in movies is ridiculous. And just for clarification, where is my strawman? It seems like something that gets claimed a lot here, even where it isn't really there. At most, I put some hyperbole in there.

But it's the fact that it's acting as if the speaking roles in movies is actually important. Which it really isn't. As well as that I dislike feminism, I find it hard to believe that something named feminism is for equal rights rather than female superiority.

As a side note, I did notice that in the same sentence you accused me of using a strawman, you also accused me of supporting wife beating.

[Nadaka]

http://www.macromeme.com/dog/learning-german.html
Where is this guide book?

I really need to learn german.

[penguinofhonor]

I definitely think the bechdel test can show sexism in a single piece, though its unreliable. If a romance move has the male character talking to his buddy about all sorts of things while the female character only talks to her friend about the dude, the male character is probably getting better treatment than the female one. This applies to a ton of chick flicks, surprisingly, which I think shows that it goes beyond the intended target audience.

[Lord Inquisitor]

http://www.macromeme.com/dog/battle-shots.html
A new drinking game approaches,