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[Loud Whispers]

Apparently it's early Christian doctrine that math = Satan.

St Augustine: "The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." [St. Augustine (354-430) , DeGenesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37]

In those days, "Mathematician" meant "Someone who uses mystical numbers to foretell the future." In other words, it was a form of divination magic. All forms of divination are condemned in christian tradition. Actual mathematicians in the sense that we use the word to day were actually encouraged by the church. (Likewise, one of the saints was canonized partially because he developed a primitive theory of evolution.) The "anti-science" bent of the historical Church has been greatly exaggerated, with the bulk of historical cases having to do with other behaviors of the scientist in question.

*cough Galileo cough*

Often overlooked in popular history, but well-documented, is that Galileo was a huge asshole. Several other astronmers were advocates of Copernican theory at the time. The reason that he was the only one brought up on charges for with was his massively insulting manner in which he posited his position. To use an analogy, if Darwin had gone up to the pope, whipped out his dick, and said "this is what makes organisms change, bitch" he would be almost as insulting as Galileo was.

So, what you're saying is that Galileo Dick-slapped everyone with his massive Star-penis?

Seems legit.

A TRUE MAN OF !!SCIENCE!!

[Leafsnail]

Often overlooked in popular history, but well-documented, is that Galileo was a huge asshole. Several other astronmers were advocates of Copernican theory at the time. The reason that he was the only one brought up on charges for with was his massively insulting manner in which he posited his position. To use an analogy, if Darwin had gone up to the pope, whipped out his dick, and said "this is what makes organisms change, bitch" he would be almost as insulting as Galileo was.

Is there, uh... evidence to support this character assassination of a man who's been dead for over 350 years?

[RedKing]

It should also be noted (and is WTF-worthy in its own right) that geocentrism is still a thing.

In three polls conducted in 1996 and 1999, 19% of Britons, 18% of Americans, and 16% of Germans said that they believed the Sun orbits the Earth.

Beyond the "failed grade school science" crowd, there are people with letters after their names who believe this shit.



EDIT:
Oh hey! I remember this song. Good piece of pop funk, never saw the video before, and I....

what the....

Is that a red codpiece? And what the hell is Geordi LaForge doing there?

[Lord Shonus]

Often overlooked in popular history, but well-documented, is that Galileo was a huge asshole. Several other astronmers were advocates of Copernican theory at the time. The reason that he was the only one brought up on charges for with was his massively insulting manner in which he posited his position. To use an analogy, if Darwin had gone up to the pope, whipped out his dick, and said "this is what makes organisms change, bitch" he would be almost as insulting as Galileo was.

Is there, uh... evidence to support this character assassination of a man who's been dead for over 350 years?

Accounts by his contemporary scientists are the primary source. It's not really a controversial theory, it's just that, like Michalangelo and Columbus, popular history has given him such a coat of whitewash that it's not so well-known. Unfortunatly, I don't have them handy, as this is something i haven't studied seriously since high school. (my history teacher in high school was big on promary sources. We rarely used the textbook.)

[ChairmanPoo]

There was more flesh to the whole Galileo incident than the pop culture portrayal. But it's nothing as simple as "Galileo being an asshole". Things just went south for a variety of reasons.

From wikipedia:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Earlier, Pope Urban VIII had personally asked Galileo to give arguments for and against heliocentrism in the book, and to be careful not to advocate heliocentrism. He made another request, that his own views on the matter be included in Galileo's book. Only the latter of those requests was fulfilled by Galileo. Whether unknowingly or deliberately, Simplicio, the defender of the Aristotelian Geocentric view in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, was often caught in his own errors and sometimes came across as a fool. Indeed, although Galileo states in the preface of his book that the character is named after a famous Aristotelian philosopher (Simplicius in Latin, Simplicio in Italian), the name "Simplicio" in Italian also has the connotation of "simpleton".[52] This portrayal of Simplicio made Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems appear as an advocacy book: an attack on Aristotelian geocentrism and defence of the Copernican theory. Unfortunately for his relationship with the Pope, Galileo put the words of Urban VIII into the mouth of Simplicio. Most historians agree Galileo did not act out of malice and felt blindsided by the reaction to his book.[53] However, the Pope did not take the suspected public ridicule lightly, nor the Copernican advocacy. Galileo had alienated one of his biggest and most powerful supporters, the Pope, and was called to Rome to defend his writings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#1600_revolution_in_cosmology

[Lord Shonus]

Though wikipedia's limitations are obvious, it HAS been several years since I studied the matter, so I may be remembering somewhat incorrectly. However, my point still stands either way. Galileo was far more a clash of personalities than "Science vs. Religion."

[Neonivek]

Though wikipedia's limitations are obvious, it HAS been several years since I studied the matter, so I may be remembering somewhat incorrectly. However, my point still stands either way. Galileo was far more a clash of personalities than "Science vs. Religion."

Well especially since the Heliocentric universe was known and rather accepted during the time in certain circles and the Church wasn't even against that idea (though after what Galileo did I don't know)

Especially since modeling the earth as the center of the universe (or galaxy) was incredibly difficult.

Anyhow it hardly matters... almost all history you learn is "pop" history. The degree of "revision" you are going to get depends on the message. For example if your country is trying to become more progressive expect minorities to suddenly transform into saints. If you have a national hero expect him to be larger then life. Was there a war based off flimsy pretenses? Expect the war to suddenly have a message, the casualties reduced dramatically, and a "lesson" to learn about way. Is your society trying to step away from the use of an institution? Well expect to see that EXACT same institution as the "villain" as they mastermind the entire ordeal! mwahahahaha

I mean just look at how WW2 is taught in American schools (No not talking about the Holocaust I am talking about EVERYTHING else). I mean, I know every country tells the history of WW2 as if they won it single handedly... but WOW...

History is sort of abused. It shouldn't be altered no matter what the political situation is. I don't care if we are trying to eradicate racism, I know that all races do wrong things. I don't care if we have a national hero, I know that heros are still people. I don't care how much evil things a person did, I don't want to hear fabricated stories about the extra evil stuff he did.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I mean just look at how WW2 is taught in American schools (No not talking about the Holocaust I am talking about EVERYTHING else). I mean, I know every country tells the history of WW2 as if they won it single handedly... but WOW...

I don't know what American school you went to, but in mine the focus of the Allies in the European theater was almost all about France and Britain until D-Day, and even afterwards American forces are only a part of it. The Pacific theater is much more American focused, but that really is because the vast, vast majority of Pacific forces were indeed American. It also talks about the internment camps where Japanese-Americans were sent and outright compares them to the Nazi concentration camps. It even mentions a couple of ships full of Jewish refugees that were refused port in America because of anti-Semitic sentiment and forced to return to an area of Europe that was eventually conquered by the Nazis.


Anyway, here's a youtube channel with over 22,000 videos on it, all of the same woman ranting incoherently in a language I cannot identify. I think I've narrowed it down to a eastern european language, but I'm still not sure. Regardless, this woman is scary.

[Bdthemag]

Eh, I spent a brief time learning about WWII in school. We spent most of our time on the holocaust, but what we did learn of WWII was mainly how the americans swept in near the end.

[Flying Dice]

My high school history classes hardly covered the war as such, and focused more on the economic, political, and social situations that made it possible, and the aftermath, mainly as a lead-in to the Cold War. Little/no discussion of actual battles, and the main mention of the U.S. specifically (rather than the Allies as a whole) was in relation to material aid being sent to the Soviet Union and Great Britain, and in relation to the politics of U.S. isolationism. Heck, our teacher was a hardline Israel supporter and we didn't spend the whole topic talking about how horrible the Holocaust was. For that matter, when we did talk about the Holocaust, we also covered the millions of victims who weren't Jewish, which seems to be incredibly rare.

[Neonivek]

Eh, I spent a brief time learning about WWII in school. We spent most of our time on the holocaust, but what we did learn of WWII was mainly how the americans swept in near the end.

And thus the day was saved thanks to! The USA! Right?

[RedKing]

I mean just look at how WW2 is taught in American schools (No not talking about the Holocaust I am talking about EVERYTHING else). I mean, I know every country tells the history of WW2 as if they won it single handedly... but WOW...

I don't know what American school you went to, but in mine the focus of the Allies in the European theater was almost all about France and Britain until D-Day, and even afterwards American forces are only a part of it. The Pacific theater is much more American focused, but that really is because the vast, vast majority of Pacific forces were indeed American. It also talks about the internment camps where Japanese-Americans were sent and outright compares them to the Nazi concentration camps. It even mentions a couple of ships full of Jewish refugees that were refused port in America because of anti-Semitic sentiment and forced to return to an area of Europe that was eventually conquered by the Nazis.


Anyway, here's a youtube channel with over 22,000 videos on it, all of the same woman ranting incoherently in a language I cannot identify. I think I've narrowed it down to a eastern european language, but I'm still not sure. Regardless, this woman is scary.

Wow, your school actually got to WWII? Mine always ran out of time right after the Great Depression. It was sort of left as, "And then the War ended the Depression! If you want to learn more about anything since the 1930's, watch some movies or ask your parents."

Seriously. I never had a single history class prior to college that so much as mentioned Vietnam. Or Korea, for that matter. Or the Cold War, the Space Race, JFK, the Cuban Missile Crisis, etc. I think there was an attitude of, "You want to learn about the Cold War? We have Soviet nukes pointed at us RIGHT NOW. We could all die any second. There's your lesson. If you want to learn more about what life will be like after World War III, go watch Damnation Alley or On The Beach."

Eh, I spent a brief time learning about WWII in school. We spent most of our time on the holocaust, but what we did learn of WWII was mainly how the americans swept in near the end.

The end?? I wouldn't call 1941 the end. Sure you're not thinking about WWI? (where we did in fact, come in at the end and basically tip the scales without needing to do that much because both sides were exhausted and then suddenly...

Uncle Sam has joined the match!
Kaiser Wilhelm: SCHEISS
Kaiser Wilhelm has disconnected.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Wow, your school actually got to WWII? Mine always ran out of time right after the Great Depression. It was sort of left as, "And then the War ended the Depression! If you want to learn more about anything since the 1930's, watch some movies or ask your parents."

Seriously. I never had a single history class prior to college that so much as mentioned Vietnam. Or Korea, for that matter. Or the Cold War, the Space Race, JFK, the Cuban Missile Crisis, etc. I think there was an attitude of, "You want to learn about the Cold War? We have Soviet nukes pointed at us RIGHT NOW. We could all die any second. There's your lesson. If you want to learn more about what life will be like after World War III, go watch Damnation Alley or On The Beach."

My AP US History class was required to reach the end of the Clinton Administration before the end of the year by school officials. My Honors World History class ended at WWII, but what was weird about that one is that we spent almost all of the 1st semester on China. Just China, for hundreds of years. I'm in AP European History right now, and we are also expected to reach WWII before the end of the year.

[Neonivek]

I don't know what American school you went to, but in mine the focus of the

Ohh I am in no way arguing that American history lessons ignored history altogether, except apperantly some do as I found out in this thread, (though oddly enough they REALLY gloss over some things... I mean Japanese americans and Canadians weren't the only group horribly affected by the allies unjustly). I just mean that sometimes American history is taught with no irony intended that they swept in and cleaned everything up.

[Bdthemag]

We learned absolutely nothing about the Japanese detainment camps in america, our teacher just went "Oh, well we did some stuff to the japanese americans. BUT LETS NOT GET INTO THAT NOW."