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Author Topic: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O  (Read 14510458 times)

wierd

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76320 on: May 14, 2015, 01:23:25 pm »

Writing conventions are there to codify use, above all other considerations.  It (presumably) ensures that all readers reading the sentence derive the same MEANING.

Take for instance, your first example "Hello, Gregory"

Is that "Hello, I'm happy to see you Gregory." or is that "Hello." (pregnant pause) "Gregory." (I would rather not see you right now.) ?

Words on paper do not convey inflection, tonality, or other cues that natural spoken language does. To remove ambiguity in use, and to codify a standard of written communication, grammatical rules for syntax are required.


Also, too many commas in that last one.
 IIRC, should be:

"So, a natural sentence is "incorrect", under writing rules."

Combination of introductory phrase "So,", and unnecessary words. ", under wrtiting rules", with dependent clause structure.

Compare:

"So, under writing rules, a natural sentence is incorrect."
(which is the better way to put it.)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:28:21 pm by wierd »
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NJW2000

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76321 on: May 14, 2015, 01:25:56 pm »

Well some, really, weird stuff happened, to me today.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76322 on: May 14, 2015, 01:27:35 pm »

I see

That explains why the Ellipsis has started to come into popular use. It fulfills a purpose our current writing system hasn't developed (An intentional or long pause or calling attention to the absence of words)

It seems that people actually do want a more natural written language.

Well some, really, weird stuff happened, to me today.

Uhhh no!

Well, some, really, weird stuff, happened, to me, today.

Get your commas right.
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i2amroy

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76323 on: May 14, 2015, 01:29:49 pm »

See, I've always thought of commas (and most other punctuation) in terms of speech. The basic rule is that you use a comma whenever you would pause slightly in your intonation of a sentence. For example try saying "Hello Gregory". You almost certainly put a tiny bit of a pause in-between the words "Hello" and "Gregory". Or "I tend to put commas in when I recognize a change of flow in my sentence structure" has a tiny pause between the words "in" and "when". Or for your last one it would almost certainly work best as "I guess it never clicks for me, because I still think in terms of speaking", since that's the way that you would probably say it.

To carry on the analogy of speaking for other punctuation, periods go in when you take a breath (which helps avoid run-on sentences, since if you are running out of breath or cheating by taking breaths during commas it means it's too long). Semicolons are a bit trickier, and go in when you do a pause longer than a comma but shorter than a period. This usually happens at the end of lists or when you've stuck two very different ideas into the same sentence. Exclamation marks and Question marks are pretty self explanatory, and change the overall speech intonation of the nearby sentence. Colons are basically a special type of semicolon, and are just used to capture the tiny speech and body language changes when you are about to recite a list; and quotes are basically semicolons that capture the tiny speech and body language changes that happen when you are about to quote someone or place special emphasis on a word. Parenthesis are used as an "aside", like when you say something to a different person in the middle of your sentence to the first person because the second needs a bit more explanation. Ellipsis (...) are used for particularly long pauses in speech, or to designate the sound of someone specifically not talking where you would expect them to normally.

I mean using a speech analogy for everything won't always get your punctuation usage 100% perfect (semicolons are especially tricky) but it will get you very close in most situations (and personally I feel it captures a bit more of the personal speech rhythms of a person).
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:31:22 pm by i2amroy »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76324 on: May 14, 2015, 01:48:53 pm »

Semi-colons are actually one of the most commonly abused sorts of punctuation mark. You only use them to connect a pair of independent but conceptually related clauses, and to separate listed items which already use commas for a purpose other than separating items. They're also very much the sort of punctuation where less is more; there are certainly a good number of cases where it could be argued that a semicolon is appropriate, but not every sentence needs to be a complex construction. Typically one of the jobs of professors correcting the writing of people who already have a strong grasp of grammar, spelling, &c. is in curtailing their overuse of complex constructions and situational punctuation. That, and killing thesauritis.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76325 on: May 14, 2015, 01:52:40 pm »

I like to use Semicolons when I have two complete sentences I feel go together too much to keep them separate. Or rather when two sentences have a single complete thought.

But to admit Flying Dice... Semi-colons have no REAL use. They are completely optional.

Unlike say a comma and a colon.

It is basically like the Exclamation point (except the exclamation point is more punctuation that has lost its original intention. Which if I remember correctly, it is commands.)

ERR WAIT! I forgot there is an exception... In lists the semicolon gets a use. That is the only time... and frankly "lists within lists" have such insane rules that you will likely NEVER do it.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 01:59:23 pm by Neonivek »
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ArKFallen

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76326 on: May 14, 2015, 01:58:57 pm »

I like to use Semicolons when I have two complete sentences I feel go together too much to keep them separate. Or rather when two sentences have a single complete thought.

But to admit Flying Dice... Semi-colons have no REAL use. They are completely optional.
They are optional in the same way punctuation is optional; the niche occupied is simply smaller than most casual use.
A comma in the previous sentence could replace the semi-colon but then what is the subject? If it was split into 2 sentences more repetition would be required. Semi-colons are like a signifier for nested code but for thoughts.
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76327 on: May 14, 2015, 02:00:28 pm »

Also I edited again so I remembered a required use of the semicolon

And that is for lists within lists.
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i2amroy

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76328 on: May 14, 2015, 02:08:10 pm »

I know of 1 real use, to help handle complex lists where just using commas would provide insufficient clarity.

i.e.
In the meeting today we have Professor Wilson, University of Barnsley; Dr Watson, University of Barrow in Furness; Colonel Custard, Metropolitan Police, and Dr Mable Syrup, Genius General, University of Otago, New Zealand.
or
We can hire either Jefferson; Lincoln, Brent, and Hodges; or Adams and Metts to build our cabinets.

Edit: Dang you and your ninja editing about lists in lists. :P
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Neonivek

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76329 on: May 14, 2015, 02:10:59 pm »

Quote
In the meeting today we have Professor Wilson, University of Barnsley; Dr Watson, University of Barrow in Furness; Colonel Custard, Metropolitan Police, and Dr Mable Syrup, Genius General, University of Otago, New Zealand.

Ok I have to admit, you definitely got me to laugh.
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Graknorke

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76330 on: May 14, 2015, 02:13:09 pm »

Neo, do you talk like you're the G-Man or something? I can't think of a time I've heard someone IRL talk with so many commas.
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NJW2000

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76331 on: May 14, 2015, 04:04:30 pm »

Recently found out that my English teacher, a self-justifying, "It's just for the sake of my children" Tory, dated David Cameron's sister, liked him, and was at the same house at Eton... liking this guy a lot less as the year goes on.

Weird.
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Orange Wizard

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76332 on: May 14, 2015, 05:08:44 pm »

You people are all worse than Hitler.
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NJW2000

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76333 on: May 14, 2015, 05:12:06 pm »

Referring to whom?
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Eric Blank

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Re: Things that made you go "WTF?" today o_O
« Reply #76334 on: May 14, 2015, 05:18:29 pm »

I don't see any people here. Wrong thread, maybe?
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