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[Neonivek]

I get the impression that the Boogeymen aren't placeholders. They are the intended feature outright. (Toady implemented Wild Animals and they still exist in encounters.. they are just WAAAY more rare now... when previously you might get attacked by packs of wolves quite commonly)

Toady's fix is probably to fix up party management so it isn't a chore to have party members and so they don't do everything for you.

And frankly yeah that would go a long way to fixing the issue. I didn't like party members because they made things like crossing rivers a chore, I'd have to bring enough of them so they don't die off getting me killed by boogeymen on the way back, and they would often just defeat the entire encounters for me.

It was weird watching a group of peasants kill a dragon with dinner knives... in fact it was scary because their flesh was melting but they were still zerging the dragon.

[Flying Dice]

Ok Putnam then lets do it your way too.

How do you make sure you always have a companion with you? What do you have to do to keep them? What can't you do with them?

I am fully aware of every single way to circumvent boogeymen, to remove them from the game, to defeat them in battle, to mod yourself so they don't harm you, to make them not appear.

But I never said boogeymen couldn't be handled. I had a pretty good system to deal with them.

I'm sorry, but this is really to the point of someone complaining about a game's default resolution not matching their screen resolution when they can change it in the options menu in fifteen seconds, or complaining about a game not having inverted Y-axis aiming active by default. It's a problem which is incredibly trivial to remove entirely which can also be addressed in a number of fairly simple ways within a play session.

If you don't like boogeymen in the game at all, turn them off. If you don't want to turn them off, use any of the straightforward methods the game provides to avoid them. I'm really not seeing where this is the fault of the game at all -- granted, the feature is a bit strange and is probably a placeholder for something more nuanced, but when it's something which you can directly address in any of several simple, easy ways...

[Spehss _]

I have a lot of faith in Toady One, but I personally think Dwarf Fortress is objectively bad currently.

Heh. Objective saying "objectively". It's like a pun or somethin'.

[Tawa]

I personally think Dwarf Fortress is objectively bad currently.

This statement either contradicts itself or is a pun. Sphessninjas.

How do you make sure you always have a companion with you? What do you have to do to keep them? What can't you do with them?

1. Find random drunk people or armed warriors.
2. Kill people who try to kill them, give them armor, or have non-incompetent companions.
3. Nothing, really.

Thus the logical thing to do is to turn them off by default because everyone who likes them doesn't care about modding their game to include them. While people who dislike them actually dislike the fact that they even need to customize the game to exclude them.

This "logic" only benefits people who dislike bogeymen.

^{_{Note: I am in debate mode. I do not intend to offend anybody in debates. I am merely trying to press my side of an argument.}}

[Neonivek]

If you don't like boogeymen in the game at all, turn them off. If you don't want to turn them off, use any of the straightforward methods the game provides to avoid them. I'm really not seeing where this is the fault of the game at all -- granted, the feature is a bit strange and is probably a placeholder for something more nuanced, but when it's something which you can directly address in any of several simple, easy ways...

And likewise.

If you like boogeymen so much, turn them on. What is the issue with having them off as the default setting?

Also number 2 is incredibly hard to do because your companions will typically just kill everything before you get the chance to. I've seen what incompetent companions can do.

As I said earlier... dear goodness that dragon... and I had survivors.

[Putnam]

Ok Putnam then lets do it your way too.

How do you make sure you always have a companion with you? What do you have to do to keep them? What can't you do with them?

I am fully aware of every single way to circumvent boogeymen, to remove them from the game, to defeat them in battle, to mod yourself so they don't harm you, to make them not appear.

But I never said boogeymen couldn't be handled. I had a pretty good system to deal with them.

...I have never had a problem with leaving companions behind.

[Xantalos]

If you don't like boogeymen in the game at all, turn them off. If you don't want to turn them off, use any of the straightforward methods the game provides to avoid them. I'm really not seeing where this is the fault of the game at all -- granted, the feature is a bit strange and is probably a placeholder for something more nuanced, but when it's something which you can directly address in any of several simple, easy ways...

And likewise.

If you like boogeymen so much, turn them on. What is the issue with having them off as the default setting?

Having them off as the default setting would lead to a lot of new players not being aware of their existence. Some of them might like bogeymen, some might just wanna turn them off in which case it's easy to do.

[Neonivek]

They have to read guides to play the game. They will learn about Boogeymen.

[Tawa]

They have to read guides to play the game. They will learn about Boogeymen.

Objection. How did the first players learn to play?

Also number 2 is incredibly hard to do because your companions will typically just kill everything before you get the chance to. I've seen what incompetent companions can do.

Pssst. Hey, did you know you can tell companions to stay behind? Or that you can avoid getting absurd numbers of companions? In DF2014, at least.

The issue with having them off as the default setting is a combination of status quo and popular demand. Most people don't mind them or like them and it'd be extra work to make bogeymen off by default.

[Neonivek]

Most people don't mind them or like them

Ahh! Now this is an assumption I'd like to challenge.

Neonivek Poll #2!

But sure, lets put this discussion on hold until I get polling data. I'll put up two polls, one in the higher and one in the lower boards.

[Xantalos]

They have to read guides to play the game. They will learn about Boogeymen.

I didn't read no guide when I was learning. Besides, what if they don't? Then they won't know why they fear the night.

Most people don't mind them or like them

Ahh! Now this is an assumption I'd like to challenge.

Neonivek Poll #2!

But sure, lets put this discussion on hold until I get polling data. I'll put up two polls, one in the higher and one in the lower boards.

I'll preempt you by saying I don't mind them.

[Tawa]

Most people don't mind them or like them

Ahh! Now this is an assumption I'd like to challenge.

Well, how many people agreed with your suggestion? If it was "shot down", then more people disliked the idea than liked it.

[Neonivek]

Anyone who responds to me in writing is going to say they don't mind them or like them

Since anyone who doesn't like an aspect of Dwarf Fortress is pretty much cowed into going along with the popular consensus... or already left because of the increasing amount of frustrations in the game.

[Xantalos]

Pretty much, yeah. But regardless of my like of them, they're a feature in the game that shouldn't be disabled by default unless there's a clear option to turn them on that everyone knows about without having to read any guides or such.

[Tawa]

Since anyone who doesn't like an aspect of Dwarf Fortress is pretty much cowed into going along with the popular consensus... or already left because of the increasing amount of frustrations in the game.

^{[citation needed]}