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[Tawa]

-snip-
Then I looked at my last two suggestions which were basic improvements to the game that were shot down because it is removing "features" that just bogged the game down in needless tedium.

What were these suggestions, out of curiosity?

[Neonivek]

-snip-
Then I looked at my last two suggestions which were basic improvements to the game that were shot down because it is removing "features" that just bogged the game down in needless tedium.

What were these suggestions, out of curiosity?

One was removing Boogeymen, which yeah is just my opinion but the counter arguments usually boiled down to "You can win against them you know?" and "Your just doing it because you are a stupid idiot wimp". Almost no one argued that they weren't as much of an obstacle or annoyance as I was making them out to be.
-Honestly if they were turned off by default I bet almost no one would actually turn them on again except for gimmick games.

But the other was being able to cross rivers in travel mode. Which once again was shot down because "You know you CAN cross rivers outside travel mode right?"

[Quartz_Mace]

-snip-
Then I looked at my last two suggestions which were basic improvements to the game that were shot down because it is removing "features" that just bogged the game down in needless tedium.

What were these suggestions, out of curiosity?

One was removing Boogeymen, which yeah is just my opinion but the counter arguments usually boiled down to "You can win against them you know?" and "Your just doing it because you are a stupid idiot wimp". Almost no one argued that they weren't as much of an obstacle or annoyance as I was making them out to be.

But the other was being able to cross rivers in travel mode.

In advanced world generation, just set the number of Bogeymen types to 0. First problem solved.

For the second, a decent running start will allow you to jump most rivers.

[Neonivek]

Yes, I can deal with both of those.

I don't give credit to a game that lets itself be modded.

Or else I'd have to say Oblivion was one of the greatest games ever made.

[Bohandas]

-snip-
Then I looked at my last two suggestions which were basic improvements to the game that were shot down because it is removing "features" that just bogged the game down in needless tedium.

What were these suggestions, out of curiosity?

One was removing Boogeymen, which yeah is just my opinion but the counter arguments usually boiled down to "You can win against them you know?" and "Your just doing it because you are a stupid idiot wimp". Almost no one argued that they weren't as much of an obstacle or annoyance as I was making them out to be.
-Honestly if they were turned off by default I bet almost no one would actually turn them on again except for gimmick games.

I wouldn't say they're entirely a bad idea, but the current implementation certainly leaves much to be desired.

Optimally they would turn up every now and then instead of turning up CONSTANTLY

[Neonivek]

They need a lot of improvements right now them being difficult is a contributing factor but not the issue.

The bigger issue is that they constrain the playing styles a bit too much. Since you have to basically adjust how you play entirely around boogeymen. Who are more or less supposed to be the tangible manifestation of being alone in the dark.

and in a game known as "Dwarf Fortress: Slaves to Armok" the main character of the series shouldn't be the boogeymen.

[Tawa]

Um. Don't travel at night? I don't see how that defines a playstyle.

[Neonivek]

Um. Don't travel at night? I don't see how that defines a playstyle.

Ok... so take what you said here.

What do you have to do to ONLY travel during the day? What can't you do if you can only travel during the day?

[Tawa]

You can't... cross large swathes of mountain-less, beachless land with no settlements or lairs whatsoever alone?

If they bother you so much, you can use advanced world generation to make them not exist, you know.

[Neonivek]

You can't... cross large swathes of mountain-less, beachless land with no settlements or lairs whatsoever alone?

If they bother you so much, you can use advanced world generation to make them not exist, you know.

So in order to do it... You need to stick to mountains, The Ocean, and have a constant stream of settlements and lairs.

Joy.

Also I always turn them off... But I want the game to be... Better... by default. You shouldn't have to turn on "good".

[Spehss _]

I can see where Neo's coming from. It's a feature that seems to restrict the player's choices too much for a sandbox game.

Buuuuuut it being a sandbox game you can just choose to remove the feature. It kinda balances out. If there wasn't an option to disable the feature then I would completely agree about it being an annoying hindrance that doesn't add much to the game.

[Neonivek]

But then why would having it be turned off by default and having it be able to be turned on with a custom game change anything?

If you believe it is no big deal to create a custom game without them, then by the same metric it should be equally easy to add them by creating a custom game.

Thus the logical thing to do is to turn them off by default because everyone who likes them doesn't care about modding their game to include them. While people who dislike them actually dislike the fact that they even need to customize the game to exclude them.

It is why my argument was always "Off by default" and not "removed"

You can have your boogeymen, you just have to create a custom game to add them in

[Putnam]

You can't... cross large swathes of mountain-less, beachless land with no settlements or lairs whatsoever alone?

If they bother you so much, you can use advanced world generation to make them not exist, you know.

So in order to do it... You need to stick to mountains, The Ocean, and have a constant stream of settlements and lairs.

Joy.

Also I always turn them off... But I want the game to be... Better... by default. You shouldn't have to turn on "good".

Alone. One companion will prevent them from showing up, and companions are not that hard to come by (they simply need a high enough EXCITEMENT_SEEKING personality trait).

[Neonivek]

Ok Putnam then lets do it your way too.

How do you make sure you always have a companion with you? What do you have to do to keep them? What can't you do with them?

I am fully aware of every single way to circumvent boogeymen, to remove them from the game, to defeat them in battle, to mod yourself so they don't harm you, to make them not appear.

But I never said boogeymen couldn't be handled. I had a pretty good system to deal with them.

[hops]

I think bogeymen are Toady's placeholder for people getting their throat ripped out by wild animals.
Also we haven't gotten camps yet, which would help with that.

I think the main problem with Dwarf Fortress is that it's not done. Repeat the mantra after me: It's not done it's not done it's not done.

I have a lot of faith in Toady One, but I personally think Dwarf Fortress is objectively bad currently. That's what mods are for. Dwarf Fortress right now is not a good game, it is simply a good engine.