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[penguinofhonor]

Still harder.

I mean, cheating AI are technically harder, but most players who want difficulty don't enjoy that kind. So why put in hard content that won't get played by most of the people who want hard content?

[Sergarr]

Many modern companies don't invest into making good AIs.

The latest game with "AI" in it's name basically said outright that their AI cheats hard and periodically sends giant waves of units onto you. I don't think this can be called "good AI".

The problem with making good AIs is that it requires a lot of specific knowledge and a lot of time. Modern companies prefer to blow their budget on graphics.

[EnigmaticHat]

I think you guys may have the nostalgia goggles on.  Old games had fucking stupid AI, which is why they cheated so much.  Also why they almost always ignored LoS.  At least nowadays there are a few games with excellent AI (like Galactic Civs 2) and most of the rest manage to be passable.

...
Casual gaming didn't exist back then.
Also, the reason they were harder was because they cheated.
Unless you're not talking 'bout me?

I was talking to you, and 2 other people.  And yes, that's what I said, they were harder because they cheated.  That's a BAD thing.

Good AI /= hard AI.  Or maybe you want to play my new rock paper scissors game where the AI gets to see what you picked and then decide its move.  You'll love it, the AI will beat you every single time...

[Dutchling]

AIs that don't follow the meta will always be bad anyway, as you can just kill them with an anti-AI strategy.

This assumes you play with the same rules as the AI does.

[Mesa]

The main DF wiki page was changed?
WHEN? O_o

[BlitzDungeoneer]

I think you guys may have the nostalgia goggles on.  Old games had fucking stupid AI, which is why they cheated so much.  Also why they almost always ignored LoS.  At least nowadays there are a few games with excellent AI (like Galactic Civs 2) and most of the rest manage to be passable.

...
Casual gaming didn't exist back then.
Also, the reason they were harder was because they cheated.
Unless you're not talking 'bout me?

I was talking to you, and 2 other people.  And yes, that's what I said, they were harder because they cheated.  That's a BAD thing.

Good AI /= hard AI.  Or maybe you want to play my new rock paper scissors game where the AI gets to see what you picked and then decide its move.  You'll love it, the AI will beat you every single time...

You see, I never said it was a good thing they cheated, merely that they did. And yes, that is a bad thing. You see, I don't want to play a game in which the AI cheats, as this detracts from my enjoyment.

[Sergarr]

AIs that don't follow the meta will always be bad anyway, as you can just kill them with an anti-AI strategy.

This assumes you play with the same rules as the AI does.

So, every time player develop anti-AI strategies, the developers program in anti-anti-AI routines.

The ultimate battle between the developers and players.

[penguinofhonor]

I want to play an RTS where one side is a group of game devs making AI for their RTS and the other side is a group of gamers trying to find the weaknesses. It is a constant arms race.

[Arx]

Defensive note: I don't think AoE I's AI is good, I think it's better than Starcraft's.

[Teneb]

Defensive note: I don't think AoE I's AI is good, I think it's better than Starcraft's.

Starcraft's AI is pretty solid. It just has no chance against human players, I think because it doesn't cheat. Besides, the meat of that game was the multiplayer.

[Spehss _]

AIs that don't follow the meta will always be bad anyway, as you can just kill them with an anti-AI strategy.

This assumes you play with the same rules as the AI does.

The problem with the metagame is that the meta can and probably will change.

So making an AI that can keep up with meta would require either making the AI capable of self learning, leading to Skynet, or extra work on the dev's part to patch the AI to follow the new meta...which would probably change as soon as the patch comes out so that players can out meta the AI's meta.

[SquatchHammer]

Well now this thread had to go and do it. It just made a spiral moment...

You guys thinking that modern Big Money Movie Video Game companies would even care about really programming anything and keep using code that is decades old. Or thinking that scripting an engine over another engine is a good idea... Or even doing anything about smart features....

[Descan]

Nah, see, what the end result of video game AI is, is when we get to the point where we basically have a Her-style (non-[spoiler]ing style, or at least one that doesn't ditch us like a bunch of ungrateful cunts) AI on each of our desktops, and we just play our games player against our specific AI.

Not only will they be able to learn and adapt to the game as well or better than a human could, but as personal AI, they learn and adapt to our specific meta (the way we ourselves play games), and be able to work with that as well. Plus, as an actual entity, you can have someone to talk to [and blame] and have a good time with.

At that point, programmers won't bother coding over-all AI, just individual unit AI.

I doubt we'll have AI in each of our games that is self-learning, but instead the programmers just rely on the AI we'll each have for our own personal use.

(I highly doubt we'll have a single AI for humanity in general, unless the really strange singularity ideas where-in the very first AI goes run-away and becomes god-like before any other AI comes into existence are true.)

[Yoink]

It seems either my belt has stretched without me wearing it, or my waist has shrunk quite noticeably over the past few weeks.
The latter possibility would be especially strange, since given the fact that I've been eating more and exercising less lately due to the cold weather, I would have expected to gain weight if anything. Oh well, not complaining, guess I'll have to put another new hole in my belt.
Just... odd.

[Sergarr]

keep using code that is decades old

I'm pretty sure that thing happens regularly.