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[bloop_bleep]

But the animal still has to eat all the plants and more, so just eating many plants directly still causes less suffering in the end.

Actually, the animal was going to eat the plants anyway, whether you eat it or not. So eating it still causes less suffering because you're making sure the animal won't eat any more plants in the future.

[Reelya]

~~~

I only recently worked out what your username means. I was pronouncing it something like "goo-nii-nan-roo-nin"

[pisskop]

the concept is cool.

i feel like aside from a few characters it's really just a symbol of how we sell our morals for love popularity or revenge.

its meh

[Lord Shonus]

~~~

I only recently worked out what your username means. I was pronouncing it something like "goo-nii-nan-roo-nin"

I didn't figure it out until just now either.

[Akura]

At work, one of the girls pricing housewares has a tendency to slam things into the garbage can. Glass and ceramic things. Today, she threw a large stack of plates into an empty garbage can hard enough that, with me standing 10-15 feet away, it almost blew out my left eardrum. Even a few hours later, I can still feel it, though it really doesn't hurt.

And of course, alerting management has yet again resulted in what it always does, jack shit.

I did buy a pair of noise-reduction earmuffs on the way home. That'll help, and I know exactly what I'll say if management complains.

[scourge728]

On the topic of communism, I like it as a concept/ideal but in practice, it cannot work due to human nature being too flawed

[ChairmanPoo]

Yeah, I think the same could be said about democracy. It looks fine in theory. But in practice? Letting people elect their own leaders? Don't be ridiculous. It's obvious to anyone that our infallible ever-watching robot overlords are perfect in every way and do a far better job at governance that we ever would.


ALL HAIL ORGTRON 5000

[EnigmaticHat]

At work, one of the girls pricing housewares has a tendency to slam things into the garbage can. Glass and ceramic things. Today, she threw a large stack of plates into an empty garbage can hard enough that, with me standing 10-15 feet away, it almost blew out my left eardrum. Even a few hours later, I can still feel it, though it really doesn't hurt.

And of course, alerting management has yet again resulted in what it always does, jack shit.

I did buy a pair of noise-reduction earmuffs on the way home. That'll help, and I know exactly what I'll say if management complains.

OSHA regulates workplace noise.  Ear damage is real.  (Not suggesting that OSHA would care about this incident, just saying that that really shouldn't happen in a well managed workplace)

[scriver]

At work, one of the girls pricing housewares has a tendency to slam things into the garbage can. Glass and ceramic things. Today, she threw a large stack of plates into an empty garbage can hard enough that, with me standing 10-15 feet away, it almost blew out my left eardrum. Even a few hours later, I can still feel it, though it really doesn't hurt.

And of course, alerting management has yet again resulted in what it always does, jack shit.

I did buy a pair of noise-reduction earmuffs on the way home. That'll help, and I know exactly what I'll say if management complains.

"WHAT? I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. NO, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. I CAN'T HEAR YOU WITH THESE EAR MUFFS ON."

[Avarice]

If you want to annoy vegans tell them you believe that plants are conscious, and that you'd need to eat many plants or one animal, so eating the animal is kinder. Or variations on that. Basically instead of logic you just double-down on whatever they believe and go so far out the other end that it contradicts itself.

Well I'm an 8th level vegan I don't eat anything with a shadow.
My body just absorbs sunlight and I try not to move as I may kill some bacteria in some way...

Lets just double down hey.
Being a vegan is not about feelings and not killing things (it is for the idiots) its about simple math.
Sure to live you must kill life but why not try to kill as little as you can?
I've cut throats. I've sent projectiles at all kinds of animals and eaten. Done all that shit and will do it again if I need to survive in that situation.
I just do not like industrial farming. Without emotions using logic it is an illogical practice that the majority of you find easy because you are hidden from the reality. Especially you city folk you grew up in the machine.
I've done it and grown from my mistakes... I hope some of you can at least understand and maybe one day change your viewpoints.

[Loud Whispers]

Does anyone else just not like Little Shop of Horrors?

It's a fun film about a campy plant that wants to make it big in a harsh human society. What's not to love

[wierd]

That she's a big bad momma from outer space, who feasts on human blood?

[wierd]

If you want to annoy vegans tell them you believe that plants are conscious, and that you'd need to eat many plants or one animal, so eating the animal is kinder. Or variations on that. Basically instead of logic you just double-down on whatever they believe and go so far out the other end that it contradicts itself.

Well I'm an 8th level vegan I don't eat anything with a shadow.
My body just absorbs sunlight and I try not to move as I may kill some bacteria in some way...

Lets just double down hey.
Being a vegan is not about feelings and not killing things (it is for the idiots) its about simple math.
Sure to live you must kill life but why not try to kill as little as you can?
I've cut throats. I've sent projectiles at all kinds of animals and eaten. Done all that shit and will do it again if I need to survive in that situation.
I just do not like industrial farming. Without emotions using logic it is an illogical practice that the majority of you find easy because you are hidden from the reality. Especially you city folk you grew up in the machine.
I've done it and grown from my mistakes... I hope some of you can at least understand and maybe one day change your viewpoints.

Sadly, the industrialized farming for plants is still highly deleterious to the biosphere overall, due to the need to enforce monoculture. All those pesticides, and all that soil tillage causes tremendous strain on nonhuman life. Less so than most forms of animal production (anything involving feed lots is worse to the environment, but not all forms of animal production do so), but still very measurable and real.

I find myself strongly seeing a need for reduced population and reduced population density, to overcome these problems, because those problem exist because more sustainable techniques are less space and energy efficient, and human habitation encroachment is a major factor. (And yes, big cities are big offenders, as they concentrate human waste product production, and require dense waste disposal options, which causes lasting harm to a very large area surrounding the large cities.)

I don't normally see "vocal" vegans fully contemplating their environmental impact like this, so more often than not I find their arguments hallow. 

(For a recent example, see how much of the developed world relies on neonicotinoid pesticides, and how that reliance has been traced to all kinds of insect species being put into dangerous decline, or the effects of mass produced plastics entering oceans and degrading into toxic particles.)

If the metric is "total lives impacted", then neonic pesticides should be an anathema to you, as your plant only diet requires more human-edible plants to be produced on finite cropland, which increases pressure to eliminate insect pest losses-- meaning your toufu costs millions of insect lives to produce, and the nature of the pesticide in question (it causes severe harm to an insects nervous system, and does background harm to nonpest species as well, due to wastewater runoff, and contamination of pollinator species, and does not kill humanely or quickly) is far from cruelty free.

I see veganism as a nice idea, but one that is not an attainable goal if one is actually honest about their environmental impact. Veganism can very well cause more lifeforms to suffer, for longer periods, than some forms of animal husbandry.

[martinuzz]

We need marine algae farms (preferably without pesticides), and insect farms (feeding off our waste, mostly), and to change our feeding habits accordingly. Or indeed, we will come to a point where we are forced to reduce global population / population density, which is a much less desirable option. Current global population, let alone projected near future global population cannot be sustained indefinitly with current feeding patterns that rely on monoculture, rescource depletion (overfishing for example), fertilizers, and pesticides so much.

[EnigmaticHat]

Re: vegans, in terms of environmental impact eating meat is the same thing as eating plants.  Livestock in the US eats exactly the same corn humans do.  People who eat meat have effectively just eaten more corn than the vegetarian next to them, AND they've added some cow farts to global warming.