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[Kogan Loloklam]

Here's how the caves will be built if nobody submits anything. This is mostly how they are now, there are a few minor changes to them, but all mostly not important.

[squeakyReaper]

I really have no complaints.  But I do have one question; what do we do about our limited living space?  Too many more migrants and we're without homes for them.

Also, howdoyoubuildacobblestonefloor.  I can build a normal, stone floor, but I don't see Cobblestone anywhere.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I changed the top of page 4 post so it has room for expanding information on everything, since it is easy for me to find

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=68552.msg1657602#msg1657602


To build cobblestones, build a dirt path, then put a Trowel in your hand and hold 2 bricks in your inventory, then double click the path.

As for migrant expansion, The plan is the top right area, hidden behind stone. It'll be a bit before we get that going though.

Sirian, what do you plan to call your new fort?

[Sappho]

Does anyone else think this game would be ten times better with permadeath?  Imagine how differently the orcs would treat us if they knew a war with us meant something real...

Of course, permadeath wouldn't mean much outside of roleplaying anyway since there are no skills to be developed or anything like that.  I guess you would have to rebuild your totem with a new character.

[squeakyReaper]

Permadeath sounds harsh.  It's unforgiving, would alienate people, and detract less skilled and intelligent players from playing...

Love the idea!

I would however appreciate it if combat was a little more forgiving if this was implemented, however.  For example, after being knocked out, you should pass out.  Your then passed-out body can be dragged away from the scene, allowing you a chance to recover if you have a friend near by who can treat you.  There are some problems with it by design other than that.  It would encourage griefers to murder newbies and steal their things, though, and the orcs would be even more dangerous as they simply don't care if they die.  I doubt it will be put in, but it would be nice if only so I can stop saying "I got better" as a reason for coming back to life.

[Muz]

So, plan it out. If no plans are made, It'll just be as it is now.


(Please note, this edit represents a change in the image. The bottom right corner was off a bit, and now its fixed.

Hmm... here's what I think:
We keep the lake gate as a chokepoint (rats will make a siege harder).
Bottom two entries can be turned to gates and chokepoints.

Top right can be used as a mushrum farm, so we have an unlimited food supply in case of a siege. Part of it can be used for dining hall and food. Animal pen would have to be moved, because it'd get in the way of traffic. Maybe further back into the fort. I suppose it would be fun to have a side pen with Rars and troll eggs and other vicious creatures to injure those who breach the walls.

I'd suggest making the place in the bottom middle as the new temple to Gaia, placed right in the bottom middle of the fort. We could move the bedroom complex to the west of the fort.

Workshop could stay where it is now.


Armory and treasury should be kept where they are. It's a good rally point and gives dwarves a place to run off to rally and collect weapons, and they can move from the lower left to lower right gate and vice versa.

Or another option is to move it to the bottom right of the map. That way, dwarves will trap themselves in a corner, fight harder to keep the fort, and be forced to fight to their death to keep it.


On the outside, we change the current farm to a training ground. Instead of having people patrol the west/east gates, we can have people train just outside the gate.

We'll still keep a smaller farm, for Phluf and vegetables. Trading post would still be there, visitors can step on the front lawn and trading post instead of being locked out of shouting range and being tempted to break down our front gates.

I'm not so sure about the guest rooms, though. They seem a little underutilized, and a bit tough to maintain.

Does anyone else think this game would be ten times better with permadeath?  Imagine how differently the orcs would treat us if they knew a war with us meant something real...

Not really... permadeath makes people really cranky. I'm quite happy with the atmosphere, don't want the elitist crud you get from RPIs with permadeath, and there'd still be the hassle of griefing. And I've died like 12 times in this game so far

I do think it'd be better without totems and those safe points. Totems are lame, IMO. They should be deactivated when the person who creates them logs on. So it's good for keeping people from burning your house or breaking your walls and stealing stuff when you're away, but not good for permanently keeping people out of an invincible, tight area.

[Jerimy]

A solution to the problem of space could be solved through the use of communal housing. Make the rooms slightly bigger, and stick 3-5 people in each one. This would also allow for more public buildings

[Kogan Loloklam]

I got the answer as to what the hell is going on with the orcs.

First of all, Gorge tribe:
Garf built a sign in the Gorge orc territory. This was a treaty violation. They are at war with us.
Another grievance they had with us is someone built a wall on top of a bridge in their territory, blocking the Flargl. I've told them a human did it, and it was the reason we restrict travel through our fortress for humans.
They are at war with us. Raul, you'd have to negotiate with their chieftain for peace. I don't expect it'll come without some major fights that we win, though.
The grivances and war position came right out of the mouth of a Gorge orc.

I paid 3 Sharpened axes due to our broken oath. I think we SHOULD be taking our oaths seriously. This also has the RP effect of showing them that we don't fear them, since we gave them weapons as if it didn't matter that they had them or not. In reality, those axes wouldn't matter, since they already have plenty of weapons.


Second, the Whaterfal tribe
I believe the Whaterfal tribe are upset by Yamur's sign. They are probably pressing us because the Whaterfal and the Gorge tribe have contact between each other, and one was inspired by the other. I expect war with the Whaterfal tribe.
I think they should get a similar gift, and that we should be wary of Whaterfal orcs until they have declared their intentions.
I am already replacing the axes given out. We should have plenty of weapons for everyone to be armed.

(assuming no wipe)

[garfield751]

ugh i seem to be screwing up alot this week. the sign was to explain why theres suddenly a cart full of fish for them next to their gate as a gift as one of the orcs there told me that they didnt have alot of food. apprantly thats enough to go to war over 

[Sirian]

Sirian, what do you plan to call your new fort?

I think i'll call it "Abaloddom" (Palecloister).

I doubt that any sane dwarf would give weapons to orcs, even more so if we're at war with them. If you seriously consider a sign saying "here is free fish for you" as a treaty violation, then whatever, but don't be surprised when i say you're licking their boots.

I suspect that no matter what, they will provoke war, because as they've said, they're bored, and that's the main reason why they invited Sappho in the first place. However, since we're playing with minimum interaction with them, the only way they have left to relieve their boredom is war.

The wipe will make things interesting, though. I'm looking forward to a fresh start.

[Kogan Loloklam]

Well plenty of people want to come to your place to get away from the orcs. All I really care about TBH is to get our RP permanant, which means doing what it takes so that our storyline is solid. That means we gotta keep Duradbesmar, and we have to somehow prevent the orcs from planting a flag in it. Damned if I know how we'll pull that off, but it's something we've been working on. If that means trading away a few crappy axes so that the Gorge have less of a reason for war, so be it. For licking their boots, that's not really happening. I've attacked several for passing through the fortress and not stopping to say who they are or what they are doing. I've also been tossing some insults at them, as they have been tossing some back.

Part of the problem with this whole scenario is that those guys actually know how to fight, and we don't. One orc killed three dwarves the other day. If you can take down orcs, start passing that knowledge off and then their 3 guys facing our 4 wouldn't be an even match, but a sure orc loss. As such, the moment they said the Bux hide was theirs, we could attack and expect to win.

[x2yzh9]

Right. I have a axe, halberd, and spear, which one would be best for fighting against the orcs/in general?

[nenjin]

Sirian, what do you plan to call your new fort?

I think i'll call it "Abaloddom" (Palecloister).

I doubt that any sane dwarf would give weapons to orcs, even more so if we're at war with them. If you seriously consider a sign saying "here is free fish for you" as a treaty violation, then whatever, but don't be surprised when i say you're licking their boots.

I suspect that no matter what, they will provoke war, because as they've said, they're bored, and that's the main reason why they invited Sappho in the first place. However, since we're playing with minimum interaction with them, the only way they have left to relieve their boredom is war.

The wipe will make things interesting, though. I'm looking forward to a fresh start.

This is more or less my take on the situation. They're tired of RPing between their clans, and oh look, here's a nice tasty 3rd party. Regardless of what we do or don't do, they will always have a reason to pick fights or whatever. So the arbitrary giving of food or insults, it really doesn't matter. My main objection to picking fights is going to go away with the next version, so they can burn down the same door as many times as they want for all I care. Up until now, it's been annoying because it causes chaos in the door exemptions.

Part of the problem with this whole scenario is that those guys actually know how to fight, and we don't. One orc killed three dwarves the other day. If you can take down orcs, start passing that knowledge off and then their 3 guys facing our 4 wouldn't be an even match, but a sure orc loss. As such, the moment they said the Bux hide was theirs, we could attack and expect to win.

They are a) stronger than us in combat according to their stats and b) probably none of them run around in less than leather.

For those that don't know...

There are only THREE armor types. Leather Chain and Plate.

Cloth is worth NOTHING.

There are also three damage types.

Piercing Blunt and Slashing.

Each armor type is more or less resistant to one of those damage types.

So I'm not surprised one orc beat three dwarves. Half of us are going for stylish over combat performance, and we're already at a disadvantage on stats. Plus, the combat is...how shall we say....clunky, given that you can attack in all 8 directions....but only if you're standing RIGHT next to the guy.

Right. I have a axe, halberd, and spear, which one would be best for fighting against the orcs/in general?

If they're wearing plate, a spear I'm guessing. I don't know what damage class the halberd is.

[Kogan Loloklam]

So, which one do we use? They do mostly use leather. I assume that Plate is good versus slashing and piercing, but not blunt. So what do we use against leather? Slashing I'd think. That would be axes and Halberd.

But we have to mash the right key to attack. One thing I learned, NEVER be the one to move into their square. Make them move into yours, if possible.

fur and cloth dont change anything
slashing weapons are best against chainmail while worse against leather
piercing weapons are best against plate, while worst against chainmail
bashing weapons are best against leather, while worst against plate

spear and halberd for piercing
sword and axe for slashing
mace and flail for bashing
tools are neutral

Flargl Leather is the same as leather, but fire resistant

[Sowelu]

Slashing is the one I wouldn't use against leather, myself.  If I had to guess, and I will because I have no real idea, I would say that against leather stabbing > blunt > slashing.