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[Nivim]

 Hm, that's a harder one, since it requires more than just a number to full describe that. The "unpredictability" number is definitely a part of it though.
    7. The scale of how dangerous magic is in general. Is it and its users treated like the plague or not?
     7.a. How dangerous to the user? (% of 7.)
     7.b. How dangerous to those nearby? (% of 7.)
 The complexity comes from what kind of danger is involved, since it's extremely variable, and also part of the "cost" setting. There could be the otherworldly horror danger, the damaged soul danger, danger from loss of control...Am I going at it backwards?


 Should we divide the unpredictability number between it being unpredictable to player and being unpredictable to the caster?

[Knigel]

^Unless you're in adventure mode, yes, because Toady has stated he doesn't want anyone directly controlling their units in Fortress Mode.

[Rowanas]

Yay! My previous magic quote got pulled out for special attention!

Going back a page...

Knigel, you make a fair point about magic being used "because you can", but I don't think people will abuse a mage just because he's healthy and well-rested. Sure, they might just use up mages to begin with, but I'm pretty sure that will stop when they realise that the poor guy is napping, in hospital, just as a siege comes round the bend. I don't think it'll hit immediately, of course... they'll have to endure a prolonged period of shitting themselves and wishing their best defence was still awake and not bleeding from his pores.

Again, all of this is only theoretical. Down with High Magic Dwarves!

[lordnincompoop]

Yay! My previous magic quote got pulled out for special attention!

Going back a page...

Knigel, you make a fair point about magic being used "because you can", but I don't think people will abuse a mage just because he's healthy and well-rested. Sure, they might just use up mages to begin with, but I'm pretty sure that will stop when they realise that the poor guy is napping, in hospital, just as a siege comes round the bend. I don't think it'll hit immediately, of course... they'll have to endure a prolonged period of shitting themselves and wishing their best defence was still awake and not bleeding from his pores.

Again, all of this is only theoretical. Down with High Magic Dwarves!

Okay, this is sorta off topic, but Rowanas do you frequent the Bethsoft forums?

[Rowanas]

Yay! My previous magic quote got pulled out for special attention!

Going back a page...

Knigel, you make a fair point about magic being used "because you can", but I don't think people will abuse a mage just because he's healthy and well-rested. Sure, they might just use up mages to begin with, but I'm pretty sure that will stop when they realise that the poor guy is napping, in hospital, just as a siege comes round the bend. I don't think it'll hit immediately, of course... they'll have to endure a prolonged period of shitting themselves and wishing their best defence was still awake and not bleeding from his pores.

Again, all of this is only theoretical. Down with High Magic Dwarves!

Okay, this is sorta off topic, but Rowanas do you frequent the Bethsoft forums?

No, why? Does my skillfully woven rhetoric remind you of some fortunate soul, blessed with the gift of super-articulate speech?

[lordnincompoop]

Yay! My previous magic quote got pulled out for special attention!

Going back a page...

Knigel, you make a fair point about magic being used "because you can", but I don't think people will abuse a mage just because he's healthy and well-rested. Sure, they might just use up mages to begin with, but I'm pretty sure that will stop when they realise that the poor guy is napping, in hospital, just as a siege comes round the bend. I don't think it'll hit immediately, of course... they'll have to endure a prolonged period of shitting themselves and wishing their best defence was still awake and not bleeding from his pores.

Again, all of this is only theoretical. Down with High Magic Dwarves!

Okay, this is sorta off topic, but Rowanas do you frequent the Bethsoft forums?

No, why? Does my skillfully woven rhetoric remind you of some fortunate soul, blessed with the gift of super-articulate speech?

No. It's just that I think I knew a Rowanas from back when I was on those forums.

[Sfon]

Dwarf fortress already has magic to some extent in artifacts. It is subtle, but reliable. A donkey bone floodgate should leak unless it was made of more sealant of some kind than bone. A ruby studded sock should be horribly uncomfortable even if pretty. How do they work? Magic, they are mysterious artifacts.

Elf weapons could be the same way. Why should they even have to enchant with a "spell"? It could simply be their ability to have wooden weapons and armor they make and/or use be as effective as metal without even having to think about it.

Personally, I'd like to see the core of DF magic expand on subtlety like how dwarven artifacts are already kind of magical more than selecting an effect off a spell menu. Stuff like fireball throwing, casting enchantments, bloody bribes to gods, and the like could vary more depending on preference of the player and world properties.

[ZebioLizard2]

Honestly, as long as there is some way to mod all sorts of magical features into DF (From Tolkien style, to standard "rpg" magic, to Vancian magic styles, to mages learning -Uber Words- that cast magic, to anything you desire really) I wouldn't care if the Vanilla style magic was more random then a super valcano explosion happening in dwarf fortress. 

[Neonivek]

A donkey bone floodgate should leak unless it was made of more sealant of some kind than bone

You mean like Glue a material you can get from bones?

[iron_general]

I know this is a rather narrow suggestion but I think a sort of summoning magic could be chaotic but useful. Essentially Urist McSummoner could be prompted by the player to kill a siege or turn lead into gold. Urist McSummoner would either select what he thought was the appropriate (procedurally generated) sprit or perhaps call upon a spirit bound to an artefact which may complete the task, go on a rampage or just make a nuisance of itself depending on the skill of the summoner/the power of the spirit. He would probably be depleted physically afterwards to prevent spamming.
With this system it would me possible to train mages, but at a high cost of failure

[Virex]

I know this is a rather narrow suggestion but I think a sort of summoning magic could be chaotic but useful. Essentially Urist McSummoner could be prompted by the player to kill a siege or turn lead into gold. Urist McSummoner would either select what he thought was the appropriate (procedurally generated) sprit or perhaps call upon a spirit bound to an artefact which may complete the task, go on a rampage or just make a nuisance of itself depending on the skill of the summoner/the power of the spirit. He would probably be depleted physically eaten alive by the summoned spirit afterwards to prevent spamming.
With this system it would me possible to train mages, but at a high cost of failure

Ye can never have too much fun with magic

[Failchon]

I want to be able to teleport my enemies organs out of their bodies again and set stuff on fire.

[kaijyuu]

I want dwarven mages in my military.

[jei]

How about summoning magic? Summoning both randomly useful and dangerous creatures into random places around the fortress, such as producing useful pets and familiars and dangerous creatures like demons (or maybe even they could be friendly at times).

Also if the wizard is an independent character in fortress mode, he could decide when he does magic. Results could be an artefact, a bunch of goblins, an ambassador from neighboring country, a herd of unicorns, a hostile elephant herd or a demon... Maybe some sacrificing animals would be required by the rituals. And some blood or other stuff that he could demand.

Other easily implementable random effects might be all food suddenly rotting away, (unprepared fort might face starvation) all lead turning into gold or vice versa, All water turning to ice around an area, magma turning to obsidian, or some other material objects into other random materials. Also item types and properties might be changed.. Like all mugs and craftworks turning into toads..

[freeformschooler]

Everyonje has so many ideas and yet Toady has said so little about the game's magic element

I'm going to have to say I agree with the "procedurally generated magic". Procedurally generated silliness and detail is a huge part of magic, and making this spell or that spell work exactly as you imagine, on every world gen, would probably be pretty silly.

Having special crazy moves being taught to an adventurer by someone that's their friend might be a good starting place for this. It's in the dev log to have new attacks and combat moves being learned!

Another starting point could be that we've already got a huge amount of "spheres" in-game to use for magic, though that might come a little too close to the Magic A is Magic A problem I mentioned above.