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[SolarShado]

Title gets the main point, but here's my right-this-minute conundrum... I'm not sure exactly what I want to do in IT... I enjoy programming, networking, web development...

Being a shut-in for most of my childhood, I spent a lot of time tinkering with computers. I'm in college now (early 2nd year of a 2 year program) and have been bored in most of my classes. I'm tempted to say I could've learned more if I hadn't been in college, then i'd have more free time...

Looking at other local (4 year) colleges' computer science programs, I've been disgusted by the lack of actual computer courses... But from the research on the job market I've done, an associates degree doesn't mean near as much as a bachelors.

Where's the sense in that??? I've already taken more computer courses than USC upstate requires for a bachelors!

Any real-world tips for getting into IT as a college student? Everything I've come across requires experience and/or 4 years of college... Even a help-desk position (which I've heard is a decent way to get your foot in the door) requires 2-3 years experience...

sorry if this is a bit incoherent, i'm confused, mildly irritated, and sleepy atm

[Tellemurius]

from my point of view its not the degree that going to count much (hell do i know, im going for this career also) its going to be in your certifications. there are two paths in IT: Information Systems and Security Expert. each has their own certifications you need to study, i heard Securities is easy but make sure you know how to handle some high level math. as for a early job, the moment i get my A+ certification (6 months in ed)im getting a internship at Brocade(my dad's friend works there). so start out for maybe 6-8 months to start looking for IT work and even then just look for some intern apps.

[Dasleah]

All the self-taught experience in the world doesn't mean shit unless you've got someone whom society deems to be Very Clever Indeed to sign a piece of paper that says "Hey yeah, he paid his fees and at least passed everything, he's cool by me." So yes, it may be bullshit to you that you need a Bachelors to get a step in the door somewhere, but you still need one. So if that's the path you want to go down, then go get one. Whether or not you want some Certifications as well is up to you. Some companies love them, some hate them, some require them, others will actually look down on you for having them. But again it's another thing to prove you can do what you're talking about, so it might be worth considering.

The first job I got in IT, I didn't have any industry qualifications or direct job experience. I got it simply because I turned up, made the right impression, and got lucky. Most entry-level I.T is literally monkey work (it will mostly pay literally bananas, too). It's not clever, it's not hard, but it's where most people without qualifications start (and earn them). It's another level of bullshit filtering, trying to keep the idiots down and weed out those who aren't taking it seriously. Look around for anything and everything that gets you hands-on with a computer solving problems. Eventually you'll start to discover what kinds of problems you enjoy solving, and then you can start to filter. Apply for anything and everything. Realise that doing something you love is the dream, and not the (easy) reality.

Hell, you're a student, you should have startups falling out your arse. Find something you want to work on, do it on the side (or full-time, inbetween job interviews) and use something like that.

[Tellemurius]

All the self-taught experience in the world doesn't mean shit unless you've got someone whom society deems to be Very Clever Indeed to sign a piece of paper that says "Hey yeah, he paid his fees and at least passed everything, he's cool by me." So yes, it may be bullshit to you that you need a Bachelors to get a step in the door somewhere, but you still need one. So if that's the path you want to go down, then go get one. Whether or not you want some Certifications as well is up to you. Some companies love them, some hate them, some require them, others will actually look down on you for having them. But again it's another thing to prove you can do what you're talking about, so it might be worth considering.

The first job I got in IT, I didn't have any industry qualifications or direct job experience. I got it simply because I turned up, made the right impression, and got lucky. Most entry-level I.T is literally monkey work (it will mostly pay literally bananas, too). It's not clever, it's not hard, but it's where most people without qualifications start (and earn them). It's another level of bullshit filtering, trying to keep the idiots down and weed out those who aren't taking it seriously. Look around for anything and everything that gets you hands-on with a computer solving problems. Eventually you'll start to discover what kinds of problems you enjoy solving, and then you can start to filter. Apply for anything and everything. Realise that doing something you love is the dream, and not the (easy) reality.

Hell, you're a student, you should have startups falling out your arse. Find something you want to work on, do it on the side (or full-time, inbetween job interviews) and use something like that.

what the.... what company hired you! Im talking about high level jobs like Cisco Systems and Brocade, you don't even need programming for IT wtf were you actually doing?

[Astramancer]

I've spoken with guys in IT at my company, and until you hit management, they actually prefer that you don't have a degree (less to unteach).  Go for the certifications.

[dragonshardz]

Oooor you could do as one of my classmates and I are doing and start yer own IT business. Most colleges will literally give away money to student entrepreneurs.

[Shades]

I've spoken with guys in IT at my company, and until you hit management, they actually prefer that you don't have a degree (less to unteach).  Go for the certifications.

That is unusual in my experience, UK job market here so it might differ, a lot of companies I've worked for don't even look at the CV if there isn't a degree on it. Which is stupid because they all agree that it tells you very little about the person.

I'd say get the degree and work part time doing something related. The combination of multiple years experience and the degree should get you started at most companies and from there on you can show your actual ability. Yes your degree will be dull to get, I pretty much stopped going into the classes for the last two years of mine and just did the assignments (posted on-line) but that was enough to get the qualification which got me the first job and then experience was the keep for the ones after it.

It might give you time to decide what area you want to go in to as well, or at least narrow your focus IT covers a lot of things and you might not enjoy it all.

[Dasleah]

what the.... what company hired you! Im talking about high level jobs like Cisco Systems and Brocade, you don't even need programming for IT wtf were you actually doing?

Government position, supporting high school students and teachers for a laptop rollout. Where the hell did I suggest he do nothing but programming? The fact that you think there are only two 'paths' in IT and both require / are named for the Certification that sponsors them really makes me think you're talking our your arse here (especially in the whole thinking that an A+ is worth anything other than proving you can turn up to an exam and hand in something that's not just a vomit stain)

[Muz]

I think it depends on which part of the world you're from. From what I've heard, it seems like the USA views degrees as far less important than other countries.

[dragonshardz]

I think it depends on which part of the world you're from. From what I've heard, it seems like the USA views degrees as far less important than other countries.

*looks at the post*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*looks at it again*

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

America doesn't see degrees as important? You can't get a job above entry-level wage slave in ANY company ANYWHERE in America.

[Shades]

America doesn't see degrees as important? You can't get a job above entry-level wage slave in ANY company ANYWHERE in America.

Unless you know someone that works there Remember who you know is always far more important than any ability to do the job.

[dragonshardz]

Okay, true, but still. Unless you have connections, getting a job that pays better than entry-level wage slave necessitates getting a degree.

And the tuition for university here is so high that unless someone pays for you to go to college, you get a scholarship, or a student loan, you need a better job so you can afford college so you can get a better job to afford college...and so on.

[Shades]

Luckily where I live students can get 'interest free' loans to cover tuition, although we are slowly changing to the usa model it seems

[GTM]

The rhetoric in the states - particularly in some engineering type fields - is definitely anti-degree.  There is that common joke about "less to un-teach."

In practice though, people get hired out of college for their degrees unless they have sick connections.

If you're looking to play hard ball and join a hardcore IT firm, then go to a top 20 school or get your masters as a bare minimum nowadays.  Also be prepared to study your ass off for mind game interviews that make the navy seals look like pussies.

If you're going for a smaller firm, you want to be an interesting candidate that specializes in a role they need - I.e. If they're looking for people who know databases, then you should have done major projects in school involving databases - and also some kind of extracurricular activities that show versatility.

Now, if you just want to be the tech guy for a non tech company, then it's just about certification and big words to impress the lay people.

[Ephemeriis]

A 4-year degree is not going to teach you any specialty.  It really isn't going to get you trained to do anything terribly specific.  It's more of a general education.  If you really want to specialize you'll be going for a Masters and/or PhD.

All a 4-year degree shows an employer is that you can be taught.  Nothing more.  It implies that you managed to pay attention in class, take notes, and put the right answers on a test.  It implies that you had enough dedication to show up to enough classes to pass.  It implies a certain level of competence and responsibility.  It implies that you can probably take instructions.  It does not imply that you actually know what you're doing.

I always tell people that a 4-year degree is a great way to figure out what you want to do.  Take the classes that look interesting, not practical.  You'll quickly discover what you actually do and don't like doing.

I started my BS in Computer Science absolutely convinced that I wanted to be a game developer.  Then I discovered that I enjoyed playing games a hell of a lot more than I liked writing code.  And eventually came to the conclusion that managing networks was far more fun than building software.  So now I'm a sysadmin.

As for what is actually useful...

Degrees and certificates are great for getting your foot in the door.  Lots of folks in HR just throw out resumes without the required words on them.  So I'd certainly recommend getting as many as you can.  Seriously.  Just any degree or certificate you can get your hands on.

When it comes to an actual interview though, I find it's best if you can actually have an intelligent conversation about the work you've done.  Even if it isn't 100% relevant to the work you will be doing.  Somebody who understands the technology and concepts, who knows what they're doing, and can communicate that clearly to somebody else - that's the kind of person you want to hire.

Any kind of practical experience is going to be a plus.  Fix computers for your friends and family.  Throw together a website or two.  Contribute a patch to some open source project.  See if you can get involved in managing any of the on-campus networks.  Get an internship somewhere.  Even if you aren't getting paid for it, you can use it to pad your resume and it'll give you things to talk about.

I'll also suggest that if you aren't genuinely interested in IT, that you pursue something else.

IT is not a glorious career.  You will wind up working long hours, you will not get paid spectacularly, and there's relatively little recognition for the work you do.  If you're passionate and genuinely interested in what you're doing it can be very rewarding...  If you're just slogging through the day for a paycheck you're going to get burnt-out very quickly.