Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2  (Read 1055 times)

valcon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Experience rivers.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube Channel
[38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« on: March 17, 2008, 04:54:00 pm »

So my adventurer, like many before him, was shot in the face by a goblin bowman.  This one, unlike the others, survived, and lived to travel again.  

However, I noticed that when I throw stuff, it seems to throw in a random direction.

Here is a video link:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-433-thedudestrikessomewhere

If I had lost BOTH eyes this would make sense, but having lost just one doesn't lead me to believe that I would be so lost as to throw something in the exact opposite direction that I aimed it.  Perhaps a small loss of accuracy, but definitely not complete and total disability in throwing.

I've seen the video of the dwarf marksman that lost both eyes and I throw the exact same way he fired;  never lands in the same place, and if it lands where I aimed it, it's the same odds that it would land anywhere else.  

Is this intentional, that losing 1 eye has the same effect on ranged attacks that losing both does, or is this unintentional?  

Personally I think it's hilarious, I'm just wondering if this had been tested and or intentional.

Thanks!

*edit:  I have a save of the adventurer sans an eye if that helps~

[ March 17, 2008: Message edited by: valcon ]

Logged
Still doing Let's Plays, still got a gold toof. 

Adventure Mode:  The Movie!

Toady One

  • The Great
    • View Profile
    • http://www.bay12games.com
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 09:18:00 pm »

Most of them seemed to be going the right way in that video, but there were a few that were off by >90 degrees, which is crazy.  I'll take a look at it.  There really shouldn't be much of a penalty at all.
Logged
The Toad, a Natural Resource:  Preserve yours today!

Keldor

  • Bay Watcher
  • Blood for the blood god!
    • View Profile
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 10:52:00 pm »

There should be SOME penalty, since depth perception is important for judging the distance of the target, and thus how "high" to aim, but this is tricky without proper parabolic trajectories.
Logged
If ignorance is bliss, why are my dwarves all tantruming?

Foul_Jester

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 02:16:00 am »

I had this same thing happen to me back in one of the old 2D versions.  My elven assassin lost one of his eyes to a kobold's arrow; he couldn't hit the broad side of an elephant afterwards, even with near-legendary crossbow skill.
Logged
 seek the dying, the sick and deformed; all who would taint the species
stabbing and choking and burning and drowning exterminate subhuman feces

valcon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Experience rivers.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 02:22:00 am »

Yes I agree, some penalty definitely, but it just seemed odd that he'd be throwing occasionally directly behind him.  Again, to me, it's hilarious, but it seemed like one of those rare occasions that might not come up often in testing so I thought I'd make a post.  Thanks for taking a look Toady, future generations of pirates rejoice!  =)
Logged
Still doing Let's Plays, still got a gold toof. 

Adventure Mode:  The Movie!

Toady One

  • The Great
    • View Profile
    • http://www.bay12games.com
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 06:43:00 pm »

How serious should the depth perception penalty really be?  I don't lose all of my depth perception when I close one of my eyes.  There's still depth perception from focusing, judgement of size and parallax as far as I can tell.  I haven't fired a lot of ranged weapons testing for the effects of closing an eye in real life, so I don't have strong opinions on the matter.

[ March 18, 2008: Message edited by: Toady One ]

Logged
The Toad, a Natural Resource:  Preserve yours today!

Abyss

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 06:54:00 pm »

Judging from personal experience with archery, using one eye instead of two wouldn't cause that much of a difference in estimating distance, perhaps there should just be a small chance that the thrown/fired item lands a little bit short or beyond, just to have some sort of penalty. But really, using one eye instead of two is a small problem that is easily surpassed by experience.
Logged

Jonathan S. Fox

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • http://www.jonathansfox.com/
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 07:12:00 pm »

It isn't that debilitating, it just affects how precisely you can judge distance. With very fast projectiles, there's no advantage to speak of, and sometimes disadvantage in having both eyes open (if you're aiming down the sights of a gun, for example, you can only use one eye, and the other eye will just interfere). For slower projectiles, like thrown objects, or extreme ranges, like artillery or catapults, accurately judging distance is important to getting the right parabolic trajectory. But for throwing, the effect is probably negligible for just having only one eye, and unless you're going for a moving target and need to judge your lead, it's certainly not going to affect whether you miss to the left or right.

For a practical example, consider FPS games. Can you judge distance in them? Easily. It's no harder to aim guns in them just because there's only one "eye" in the game, it's really not very difficult for players to judge distances and throw grenades and other parabolic projectiles with a lot of accuracy. They do have to re-learn their throwing ability, but you don't get "Oh, I misjudged how far that was, darn my lack of depth perception" a lot, it's usually misjudging what angle to throw at to get the distance they're going for, which is a function of player skill, not an inability of the display to show distances clearly.

I've played those same shooters on a full 3D monitor, and I can tell you, it really isn't much of a tactical advantage. Everything in the game, everything you need to know to fight accurately, is perfectly clear in 2D -- 3D is just prettier and more immersive. There are advantages to that kind of depth perception, but the practical implications are actually not very big.

Logged

valcon

  • Bay Watcher
  • Experience rivers.
    • View Profile
    • My YouTube Channel
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 08:16:00 pm »

That's a tough one ...

Actually, I think it would be most apparent when firing through something, like, for example, if you were firing something at a goblin standing 20 feet away, but, between you and him, there was a shrub or another goblin or something.  Your ability to focus your eyes onto a further target and blur out objects in between; foliage, fortifications, boulders, etc, would throw your accuracy off, but, hell I have no idea how you would implement that or if it would even matter.

Logged
Still doing Let's Plays, still got a gold toof. 

Adventure Mode:  The Movie!

Draco18s

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: [38c] Adv. mode lost 1 eye throws like lost 2
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2008, 12:53:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by valcon:
<STRONG>That's a tough one ...

Actually, I think it would be most apparent when firing through something, like, for example, if you were firing something at a goblin standing 20 feet away, but, between you and him, there was a shrub or another goblin or something.  Your ability to focus your eyes onto a further target and blur out objects in between; foliage, fortifications, boulders, etc, would throw your accuracy off, but, hell I have no idea how you would implement that or if it would even matter.</STRONG>


Personally I'd have it throw in the perfect 2D line towards the target square.  The random inacuracy is how FAR you throw it.  The farther away the target, the greater the inacruacy (so throwing 4 tiles would be a +/- 2 squares, but throwing 20 tiles would be +/- 10--max distance gauged by strength of course)  Also, if the random comes up that you throw it to the target square there is a % (20?) chance that you still didn't hit the creature.

Logged