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[Bohandas]

What is the standard/default range of values that mental and physical attributes default to in a given type of creature if not defined in that creature's raw?

(The wiki entry about creature tokens mentions that the maximum value that any attibute range can go up to is 5000, and I already know that that's much higher than the defult highest value. (IIRC, the wiki page about attributes formerly listed some typical above-average and below-average ranges, but it never listed the default range, AND as  can no longer seem to find the relevant information listed on the page in question it is a moot point), uh, bu I digress...)

So again, does anybody knowthe range of values that MENT_ATT_RANGE and PHYS_ATT_RANGE default to for attributes which do not have special ranes defined for them?

EDIT: I think I finally found them:

I believe that the default attribute ranges are:
"850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150"

i am not 100% sure of these, however (see reply#3 below)

Oh wait. Maybe not. See Reply#4

[3]

Standard median is 1000; I know they can reach double that under normal circumstances, and I assume that they can halve due to misuse (assuming that actually exists in-game; I don't think I've witnessed attribute decay myself).

[Untelligent]

I think I had the numbers on hand at one point but I deleted them for some reason.

[Bohandas]

Ok, I think I finally found them:

I believe that the default attribute ranges are:
850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150

Let me explain the basis for this assumption and please tell me if it seems valid:

While looking through the stats for procedurally generated creatures that were exported through dfWorldTinker, I came across some creatures with attribute ranges like
"[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150]" or "[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150]" and I know that in creature_standard it is stated by Toady that 1000 is the default median. Since these ranges have a median of 1000 I assume that these are probably the default range.

[Bohandas]

Ok, I think I finally found them:

I believe that the default attribute ranges are:
850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150

Let me explain the basis for this assumption and please tell me if it seems valid:

While looking through the stats for procedurally generated creatures that were exported through dfWorldTinker, I came across some creatures with attribute ranges like
"[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150]" or "[PHYS_ATT_RANGE:ENDURANCE:850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150]" and I know that in creature_standard it is stated by Toady that 1000 is the default median. Since these ranges have a median of 1000 I assume that these are probably the default range.

Wait. Strike that. It can't be the default range. The low end is too high and the high end is too low.

Compare:

• ...:850:900:950:1000:1050:1100:1150] ??
• ...:450:950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250] +
• ...:150:600:800:900:1000:1100:1500] -

[MaximumZero]

Standard, as noted above, seems to be 1000. Max is 5000, though.

[Bohandas]

Standard, as noted above, seems to be 1000. Max is 5000, though.

I meant that I want to know the entire standard/default range of values.

Not just the middle value out of the seven values in the default range of values. All seven of them.

[MaximumZero]

See, that's what happens when I post after skimming a question. Pay no regard to me, I'm retarded, and I apologize for wasting your time.

[Bohandas]

See, that's what happens when I post after skimming a question. Pay no regard to me, I'm retarded, and I apologize for wasting your time.

That's ok. now that I think of it, I should probably change the title of this thread from "Default attribute values? What are they? Can anyone give me the numers?" to something like "Default attribute value range? What is it? Can anyone give me the numers?"

EDIT: there. done.

[Sutremaine]

Is there any information about which numbers correspond with which descriptions of an attribute? You wouldn't be able to get exact figures for the range, but it would be able to tell the difference between the small range of the presumed default and the large range of the other ranges. Off the top of my head, I don't recall seeing any extreme initial descriptions of attributes not listed in the dwarven raw. I get them a lot after a while (no skill decay plus plenty of free time), but not on the original seven at the time of embarking.

[Bohandas]

Just bumping this on the offchance that somebody stumbled upon the default range while messing around with 31.19's new features or something...

[Shook]

Making a rough guesstimate, i'd say the default values are something like:

[200:700:900:1000:1100:1300:2000]

I'm basing this on the fact that one + seems to add 250 to the median value. I don't think it'd be too far off to estimate it doing the same to all other values (especially since the difference in all values between + and ++ is 250), but hey, i could be gruesomely wrong.

[Thrin]

Well, this is what I could find in creature standard:

Code: [Select]

5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000:5000 MAX
1250:1500:1750:2000:2500:3000:5000 +++
0700:1200:1400:1500:1600:1800:2500 ++
0450:0950:1150:1250:1350:1550:2250 +
    :    :0900:1000:1100:    :     Avg
0150:0600:0800:0900:1000:1100:1500 -
0000:0400:0600:0750:0800:0900:1100 --
0000:0100:0200:0300:0400:0450:0500 ---
0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:0000 min
The two numbers on either side of the avg are just my thoughts, following the logical pattern everything but +++ follows. Unfortunately, my brain is not great at math at the best of times, and it's almost 2 in the morning here, so I leave it up to you guys to fill in the rest.

[Shandra]

Besides the question what the "default" range is - Some time ago I thought about putting the attribute values into a diagram, ie. about treating the values as describing a cumulative sum curve (alike to working with sieved sediment/soil samples)... but I am puzzled about the percentiles to use for the distribution:
Q0.5 is easy, that's our median (not our average or mean value), Parameter 0 and 7 must be 0% and 100%, but what for 2,3 and 5,6? Within each field of science wich is working with such diagrams I know various Percentiles to be of importance (like d60/d10 or d85/d15.... d25, d75, etc.), and I have no idea what Todays thoughts may have been about it. I am also not sure if we can assume a gaussian/normal distribution for the default ranges (but that should become clear once the diagram is plotted).
So any Ideas what Percentiles to use for the parameters? d0/d10/d35/d50/d65/d90/d100 or ../d15/d40/d50/d60/d85/.., or simply treaded as quartiles + median (0/20/40/50/60/80/100) My Statistics lectures were ages ago and so I am down to the bits I kept using in my main area of study :sigh:

The main reason I wanted to plot the data is because I wanted to mod the raws for my dwarfes (for all phys/ment_attributes) and considered it to be more easy doing this in a graphical way then to just looking at the pure numbers, ie. drawing the distribution for it and then taking the values from the graph for the parameters.

[Sutremaine]

That's fancy, I just brought out the graph paper and pencil and didn't think twice about it. The numbers I ended up with were 300-750-900-1000-1100-1350-1800.

There's a note in the body appearance modifier about how each interval has an equal chance of occuring. The attribute modifiers probably work the same way given their format.