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[Realmfighter]

Damn, I'm craving some kitten sticks now. Now where did those two kittens of mine go?

That sounds oddly sexual.

[Criptfeind]

Now that you have said it I can not unsee it.

UNSEE IS A WORD SHUT UP FIREFOX

[Ioric Kittencuddler]

So you like to put kitten sticks in your mouth?

[ed boy]

So you like to put kitten sticks in your mouth?

Well played.

[KaguroDraven]

A lot of animals are sentient. We only know of one living species that is sapient.

I see my problem >.> my school system sucked and taught us Sentiance = Sapientce.   Hell for a while I thought Sapient was just an off way of spelling it.

[Bauglir]

A lot of animals are sentient. We only know of one living species that is sapient.

I see my problem >.> my school system sucked and taught us Sentiance = Sapientce.   Hell for a while I thought Sapient was just an off way of spelling it.

No problem, I've made the mistake tons of times too (I had to use google to be sure), and it's always good to get stuff cleared up.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I think PETA is crazy, even in concept. News flash: We are an omivorous species. I don't care how many vitamin supliments you push and soy plants you grow, we as a species ulitmately need delicious animal flesh to survive, even if individuals try to do otherwise. The actual treatment of animals is somthing to be watched, but certainly not to be considered by PETA's standards. Different species have different psychological standards, and that is somthing that we need to accept. They aren't humans, they don't think like humans, and they likely wouldn't be happy if we did treat them like humans.

Here's an example:
Dogs want to be part of a pack, it's simply how their minds are wired, and you need to ensure that they consider you the leader so the established power structure between you and your dog works well without confusing them. If they consider themselves leader you have a problem, as you are ultimately the one who provides food and shelter to the dog and are likely more powerful then them physically, not to mention giving them orders. Chances are that they'll freak out and try to establish dominance by biting you. We humans, being rather stupid in regards to this sort of thing, usually then assume the dog in question is violent because striking out like that is considered a sign of uncontrolled violent urges in humans. The reality is that said dog isn't violent, so more as it is confused at the apparent break in the pack structure. Thus, it will attempt to be come dominant so that the world will fit it's view of how it should be.

My point? We have to treat animals like (get ready, as this might blow your mind) animals. That's it. Nothing more.

[Criptfeind]

I bite my dog when he looks at me funny. Keeps him in line.

[Kagus]

I remember my dad talking about a clip from some show a long time ago which showed this one guy standing in the middle of a pen or something with his pack of wolves.

Yes, pack of wolves.  They were wild animals, and he was squatting right in the middle of the fray.  I think he may even have been naked, but I haven't seen the clip myself.

The thing is, the guy knew how wolves communicated, and he knew that the only reason he was alive with all functioning limbs was because he spoke their language and had asserted himself as pack leader.  If at any time one of the other wolves would, indeed, 'look at him funny' (sizing him up for a fight), the guy would forcefully grab the wolf and bite down on its ear.  Hard.


It looked really strange, but as the guy said, that's just how they communicate.  And if he didn't do it, he'd be a heck of a lot worse off for it.  As it was, they were perfectly comfortable with him being in there with them and he could just reach out and pet them no problem.


And I thought some other species had been regarded as sapient.  Elephants have shown the ability to recognize themselves in a mirror, as have some of the great apes like chimps and gorillas.  I'm not sure about crows and ravens, but I do know that both birds are capable of some rather stunning problem-solving.

...as in, stuff that a few humans I know wouldn't have been able to think up.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And I thought some other species had been regarded as sapient.  Elephants have shown the ability to recognize themselves in a mirror, as have some of the great apes like chimps and gorillas.  I'm not sure about crows and ravens, but I do know that both birds are capable of some rather stunning problem-solving.

...as in, stuff that a few humans I know wouldn't have been able to think up.

Elephants and the great apes also mourn for their dead, which you don't see very often. Still, I don't think any other species on this planet is sapient in the way we are, but if one was I think it'd be the dolphins. They exhibit behavior that reminds me of what little we know about pre-civilization humans, not to mention a recognizable language.

Also, I imagine you realize this, but humans are one of the great apes. It just sort of sounded weird the way you typed it, so I figured I'd nitpick.

[KaguroDraven]

I bite my dog when he looks at me funny. Keeps him in line.

I'm not sure if your jokeing or not to be honest. Though to be honest I've thought about biteing my dog's ear so he learns to stop biteing my anckles, and pants, and sides if he jumps up >.>.

[Eagleon]

My point? We have to treat animals like (get ready, as this might blow your mind) animals. That's it. Nothing more.

That's a bit of a strange statement to me. Humans are animals too, literally. Same biological systems, bigger brain. I think that's entirely more profound than "Omg animals can think sort of like us only not." We're really not too different when it comes down to it, we've just made systems that are relatively complex compared to other tool-users. So we have to figure out what animals (including humans) should be treated like considering this. Regardless of whether they have it wrong or right, PETA, et. al. is interesting because they've pushed us towards that. If we're willing to eat animals, and not willing to eat humans, we should look closely at that bias and figure out whether it's harmful.

I'd really like to see vat-grown meat. Not just because I like animals, but because it's awesome, and keeping large amounts of livestock in a small space is terrible in some cases for the local environment. I'd also be completely for 'uplifting' animal species, or creating new ones, because it'd be cool to have different perspectives and it's about as close as we'll probably ever get to alien life.

I have yet to find an organization with similar views. Maybe that's a good thing, considering the impact PETA has had on animal rights hurf.

[KaguroDraven]

How is this then Eagleon?
Treat Humans like Humans, Dogs like Dogs, Cats like Cats, etc.
Edit:Also the bias makes perfect sense, DON'T EAT YOUR OWN SPECIES. I would be perfectly fine with eating aliens, or them eating us. Why? Becouse neither would be eating their own speices

[FuzzyZergling]

I'd really like to see vat-grown meat.

So would I.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

That's a bit of a strange statement to me. Humans are animals too, literally. Same biological systems, bigger brain. I think that's entirely more profound than "Omg animals can think sort of like us only not." We're really not too different when it comes down to it, we've just made systems that are relatively complex compared to other tool-users. So we have to figure out what animals (including humans) should be treated like considering this. Regardless of whether they have it wrong or right, PETA, et. al. is interesting because they've pushed us towards that. If we're willing to eat animals, and not willing to eat humans, we should look closely at that bias and figure out whether it's harmful.

What I meant was that we should treat species like the species they are instead of like humans (which is what PETA advocates), and this will help resolve our issues with them. Like in the example about dogs I gave. As for canibalism, very few species practice it, although with humans it has been both present and not between different societies. Suprisingly enough, using your own population as a food source doesn't tend to assist survival.

I'd really like to see vat-grown meat. Not just because I like animals, but because it's awesome, and keeping large amounts of livestock in a small space is terrible in some cases for the local environment.

You'll hear no complaints from me. Anything to get over how little bacon portions are, both in stores and restaurants.

I'd also be completely for 'uplifting' animal species, or creating new ones, because it'd be cool to have different perspectives and it's about as close as we'll probably ever get to alien life.

That seems a bit pointless to me, and potentially impossible. Besides, the universe is a big place. We happened, so odds are that there exists some other little blue marble out there, trying to find someone else in the universe. Hell, Yellowstone may or may not be harboring arsenic-based proto-life as we speak, which wouldn't be related to our carbon-based chain of life at all.