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Author Topic: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...  (Read 7112 times)

Cthulhu

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #75 on: October 29, 2010, 09:54:10 pm »

Thinking like that is like kicking the bottom out of a rowboat and saying you prefer swimming.  If you didn't have this overly pessimistic view of friendships they'd probably work better.

Case in point "Wait a week instead of moving and see how fast that infatuation collapses" or whatever.  No, really?  You're saying if you push a relationship away it'll flounder?  Shit, man.  You're right.

You seem to be relying on your rugged individualism, which is praiseworthy, but no one can get by on their own mangrit.  You haven't considered what happens when you can't handle something on your own and you find you have no one else to lean on.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #76 on: October 29, 2010, 09:58:57 pm »

Also, for what it's worth, how old are you? Do you still live with your parents?
16 9/12 years of age. Yes.

Thinking like that is like kicking the bottom out of a rowboat and saying you prefer swimming.  If you didn't have this overly pessimistic view of friendships they'd probably work better.
As it just so happens, I hate boats and love swimming, but this has nothing to do with the metaphor.

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Case in point "Wait a week instead of moving and see how fast that infatuation collapses" or whatever.  No, really?  You're saying if you push a relationship away it'll flounder?  Shit, man.  You're right.
Which is my point entirely. Seeing people get caught up in their momentary emotions is sickiningly short-sighted to me. Anyone starting a romantic relationship should consider their situation very carefuly before doing anything, and I personally choose to let it die by doing nothing at all.

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You seem to be relying on your rugged individualism, which is praiseworthy, but no one can get by on their own mangrit.  You haven't considered what happens when you can't handle something on your own and you find you have no one else to lean on.
I'll either find a way or die. The same is true for anything else in life.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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G-Flex

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #77 on: October 29, 2010, 10:18:32 pm »

Also, for what it's worth, how old are you? Do you still live with your parents?
16 9/12 years of age. Yes.

Okay, there's one thing. You don't need social support as much, because many more of your needs are currently being taken care of by default, both social and otherwise.

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Seeing people get caught up in their momentary emotions is sickiningly short-sighted to me.

Some emotional situations are very far from momentary, and not everyone is short-sighted, so this is irrelevant to your actual point.

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I'll either find a way or die. The same is true for anything else in life.

Er, then you'll die pretty quickly, I'm afraid. Nobody is fully self-sufficient, and most people encounter many circumstances in life where they need to rely on people close to them for help. God forbid you ever break a leg.



I reiterate that you simply don't understand, by your own admission, why anyone would engage in meaningful social relationships, which is a pretty huge lack of understanding, therefore there's no way you're coming to this conclusion in a rational and informed manner.
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Argembarger

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #78 on: October 29, 2010, 10:21:21 pm »

Losing some friends wouldn't make me an emotional wreck.

Living alone with no one I could call a friend for a few years probably would. And I'm a pretty introverted guy.

It sounds like you're worried about losing friendships for completely arbitrary reasons, and I've never heard of that happening, unless they weren't actually real friendships in the first place.

And yes, you're probably mature for your age. Looking down on your peers as short-sighted emotional idiots? So did I. I'm sure a lot of Bay12-ers did, actually, considering the kinds of people who enjoy Dwarf Fortress.

When I was in high-school, I completely felt like almost nobody in school had any clue what was really going on in the world and had their priorities all royally fucked beyond all hope. And it was most likely true. I dunno; I can't read peoples minds, I don't know what they do outside of school. A lot of times the way people behave in high school is all just a front to protect themselves emotionally, because they're worried that if they act like themselves, nobody will like them and that will confirm what they feared all along.

But I found people who agreed with me, shared common interests with me and we liked hanging out with each other.

There's gotta be some people around you can relate to, people with the same level of maturity you have. Would you so easily disregard even the potential of forming a relationship with such people?

Alternatively, about the friendships you've already had. You said they were good friends, but then you said it was an emotional nightmare chock with bullshit drama. Clearly they weren't good friends. Or you weren't a good friend. I dunno. Not enough information to decide.
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G-Flex

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #79 on: October 29, 2010, 10:25:59 pm »

And yes, you're probably mature for your age.

Define "mature". In some ways, he probably is, and in other ways, he's completely short-changing and stunting his emotional and social development.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #80 on: October 29, 2010, 10:29:13 pm »

I'll either find a way or die. The same is true for anything else in life.
Er, then you'll die pretty quickly, I'm afraid. Nobody is fully self-sufficient, and most people encounter many circumstances in life where they need to rely on people close to them for help. God forbid you ever break a leg.
...then I'll call 911 and get treated by a doctor. What the hell else would I do? Friends and Romanic Partners have absolutely nothing to do with that.

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I reiterate that you simply don't understand, by your own admission, why anyone would engage in meaningful social relationships, which is a pretty huge lack of understanding, therefore there's no way you're coming to this conclusion in a rational and informed manner.
I understand their reasoning, I just find that reasoning to be incorrect. People engage in meaninful social relationships because they feel unfufiled by themselves alone, and desperately seak out platonic and romantic confort to fill the perceived hole in their lives. This has the potential to end badly in any myriad of ways, be it total emotional collapse when the support of that person is taken away, or more specific things such as the rapid gain/loss of property in a divorce. Losses in relationships can also become very extreme, to the point of things such as Murder-Suicides when one party refuses to live or allow the other party to live without their relationship. There also exists the poteintal for unhapply continuing a dead relationship, due to a desire to avoid the shockingly extreme negitive stigma attached to the end of a friendship or romance by society in general. I understand just fine.

Losing some friends wouldn't make me an emotional wreck.

Living alone with no one I could call a friend for a few years probably would. And I'm a pretty introverted guy.
I guess we are different people then, which isn't much of a suprise.

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It sounds like you're worried about losing friendships for completely arbitrary reasons, and I've never heard of that happening, unless they weren't actually real friendships in the first place.
Not really worried about that at all, actually.
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And yes, you're probably mature for your age. Looking down on your peers as short-sighted emotional idiots? So did I. I'm sure a lot of Bay12-ers did, actually, considering the kinds of people who enjoy Dwarf Fortress.
I never said I was more mature than anyone else. My peers are different people with different needs in life, and so my judgments of them are likely incorrect even if I cannot keep myself from making them, just as their judgements of me are wrong in the extreme.

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There's gotta be some people around you can relate to, people with the same level of maturity you have. Would you so easily disregard even the potential of forming a relationship with such people?
I see no reason to bother, really.
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Alternatively, about the friendships you've already had. You said they were good friends, but then you said it was an emotional nightmare chock with bullshit drama. Clearly they weren't good friends. Or you weren't a good friend. I dunno. Not enough information to decide.
They were good friends, my life was an emotional nightmare clock filled with bullshit drama. The friendships faded, and the drama in my life did at the same time. Strange correlation, but probably not causation.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 10:45:01 pm by MetalSlimeHunt »
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
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Argembarger

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #81 on: October 29, 2010, 10:40:47 pm »

I understand their reasoning, I just find that reasoning to be incorrect. People engage in meaninful social relationships because they feel unfufiled by themselves alone, and desperately seak out platonic and romantic confort to fill the perceived hole in their lives. This has the potential to end badly in any myriad of ways, be it total emotional collapse when the support of that person is taken away, or more specific things such as the rapid gain/loss of property in a divorce. Losses in relationships can also be come very extreme, to the point of things such as Murder-Suicides when one party refuses to live or allow the other party to live without their relationship. There also exists the poteintal for unhapply continuing a dead relationship, due to a desire to avoid the shockingly extreme negitive stigma attached to the end of a friendship or romance by society in general. I understand just fine.

No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no. No. Just no.
no.
This is... no. What is this I don't even...
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but did you just classify the vast majority of everyone in the world as desperate people who have low self esteem and self-worth and seek out any possible external gratification, no matter how shallow?

Why would the support of that person be taken away? I can think of only three reasons.
1. Some life-changing event that changes the way they feel about you or their ability to see you, or vice versa. Like moving away. Or going to college.
2. One of you does something really stupid or one of you finds out the other isn't who you think they are. Bullshit arbitrary reasons go here.
3. One of you dies.

The vast majority of friendship-losses are #2, and there's a really really good chance that they weren't real friends to begin with. #1 is becoming less common thanks to the internet, but eh.

You're avoiding even the smallest relationship, but you're worried about divorce? really?

Murder-suicides? Just... what? How many of these do you think happen? When this happens, people have emotional problems that are WAAAY independent of their friend-have or lover-have status.

Unhappily continuing a dead relationship? People who do this also tend to have other emotional baggage independent.

What "shockingly extreme negative stigma" attached to the end of friendship or romance are you thinking of? I can't think of ANY. Unless you engage in MURDER-SUICIDE of course. There should be no reason anyone else gives that much of a shit about your relationships, anyway.
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This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.

trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus

KaminaSquirtle

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #82 on: October 29, 2010, 10:45:04 pm »

I meant to leave, but damn, with you saying stuff like this, I just can't leave.  But I'll make this brief.
No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no. No. Just no.
no.
This is... no. What is this I don't even...
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but did you just classify the vast majority of everyone in the world as desperate people who have low self esteem and self-worth and seek out any possible external gratification, no matter how shallow?
This this this this this this this this.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #83 on: October 29, 2010, 10:48:40 pm »

No, no no no no no no no no no no no no no. No. Just no.
no.
This is... no. What is this I don't even...
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but did you just classify the vast majority of everyone in the world as desperate people who have low self esteem and self-worth and seek out any possible external gratification, no matter how shallow?
The truth can be a painful thing.

Quote
Murder-suicides? Just... what? How many of these do you think happen? When this happens, people have emotional problems that are WAAAY independent of their friend-have or lover-have status.
Not many, I'm sure, but it is a recorded phenomenon.

Quote
Unhappily continuing a dead relationship? People who do this also tend to have other emotional baggage independent.
What "shockingly extreme negative stigma" attached to the end of friendship or romance are you thinking of? I can't think of ANY. Unless you engage in MURDER-SUICIDE of course. There should be no reason anyone else gives that much of a shit about your relationships, anyway.
There are definately people out there who will think less of you for ending a social relationship, even if they don't think it like that explicity.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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Vector

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #84 on: October 29, 2010, 10:59:17 pm »

I was happier about this thread when we were crushing on teachers.
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"The question of the usefulness of poetry arises only in periods of its decline, while in periods of its flowering, no one doubts its total uselessness." - Boris Pasternak

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G-Flex

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #85 on: October 29, 2010, 11:00:11 pm »

...then I'll call 911 and get treated by a doctor. What the hell else would I do? Friends and Romanic Partners have absolutely nothing to do with that.

That's easy to say when you're sixteen years old. I wasn't talking about immediate medical attention, I was talking about things you might need help with afterwards. I've been in situations and seen plenty of other people in situations where they temporarily have great difficulty fending for themselves, physically or emotionally, for a variety of reasons.

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I understand their reasoning, I just find that reasoning to be incorrect. People engage in meaninful social relationships because they feel unfufiled by themselves alone, and desperately seak out platonic and romantic confort to fill the perceived hole in their lives. This has the potential to end badly in any myriad of ways, be it total emotional collapse when the support of that person is taken away, or more specific things such as the rapid gain/loss of property in a divorce. Losses in relationships can also be come very extreme, to the point of things such as Murder-Suicides when one party refuses to live or allow the other party to live without their relationship. There also exists the poteintal for unhapply continuing a dead relationship, due to a desire to avoid the shockingly extreme negitive stigma attached to the end of a friendship or romance by society in general. I understand just fine.

You don't understand just fine. You think you do because you're a teenager who thinks he has the entire world figured out because of his own limited experiences the fact that he knows a great deal more than he used to as a child (and a great deal less than he will as an adult).

Nobody has to tell me (or anyone else here) that relationships can end badly, but it's pure lunacy to say that the only reason people get into relationships is because they need to "desperately seek" to fill a hole in their lives. There are many reasons why people engage in relationships, and I honestly find it depressing that I need to explain basic human interaction to someone who's been on this planet almost 17 years.

Relationships with others offer all kinds of emotional and practical support you simply aren't going to find from strangers. If you don't have anyone you can really trust and relate to, then your own development as a person is stunted. Hell, that's one of the reasons we have friends in the first place: Friends influence each other as they develop through life individually. I've seen what happens when people develop through life on a social island (self-imposed or not), and it isn't freaking pretty. Friends and family keep you in check when you fuck up (even when you don't know you have), offer insight, and provide examples of other human lives with which you are intimate, but which are different from yours. These things are extremely important, and if you get too self-absorbed then you wind up getting strange, alienated, bitter, and socially and emotionally underdeveloped. When left to your own thoughts, without anyone else you can trust or relate to, for extremely long periods of time, your entire worldview and method of operation goes unchecked and underinfluenced; this is one method by which to become a total crackpot by the time you're 30, because you've already given up on trying to relate to or understand anyone else as a human being.


Here's what I think has happened, although I could be wrong: You're a teenager. You're in high school, probably around 11th grade (by US standards). That's a really shitty time, when a lot of bad things can happen that would potentially sour you to the concept of relationships in general. That's normal. However, you can't assume that all of life is high school. There are serious cognitive biases in play here; you're weighting your own experiences very, very heavily, without enough consideration of the fact that it won't always be that way. You try to tell yourself it will with scare stories of murder-suicide, and divorce rates, and all these other things, but for the love of God, you might as well use things like that as an excuse not to leave your house in the morning. Odds are, you don't want to be a social creature because socialization at your age really, really, really blows, but the reason people stick with it is because that's a necessary period to go through before it can have the opportunity to not blow. Adolescence is tough, but it happens for a reason. On the other side of things, not everybody will be a high schooler for your entire life, and as you get older, your opportunities to pick and choose who you associate with will grow in number and importance.


The truth can be a painful thing.

If you think deep, intimate socialization is only due to desperate validation-seeking, then you don't understand primates, let alone humans.

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Not many, I'm sure, but it is a recorded phenomenon.

So is getting struck by lightning on a clear day. Better not go outside!
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LordNagash

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #86 on: October 29, 2010, 11:01:13 pm »

I'll either find a way or die. The same is true for anything else in life.
Er, then you'll die pretty quickly, I'm afraid. Nobody is fully self-sufficient, and most people encounter many circumstances in life where they need to rely on people close to them for help. God forbid you ever break a leg.
...then I'll call 911 and get treated by a doctor. What the hell else would I do? Friends and Romanic Partners have absolutely nothing to do with that.

Protip: The doctor doesn't come home with you and stay with you for the many weeks that your leg will be in plaster
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #87 on: October 29, 2010, 11:02:24 pm »

I was happier about this thread when we were crushing on teachers.
Yes, all these back and forth attempts at analizing me are extremely off-topic. We should really stop.

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Argembarger

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #88 on: October 29, 2010, 11:03:08 pm »

The truth can be a painful thing.

For your sake I hope you're just trolling there.

"I'm not the one with a problem, it's the vast majority of the world that has a problem"

Diagnosis complete, that'll be 45 of whatever your local currency is. Have a good day.

Prediction: By the time you're in college, you'll be looking back going "lol wut was I thinkin". Sure you may not regret anything, but chances are almost inevitable that one day you'll find a true friend and wonder how you managed without them.

If not, enjoy the life, mate. I'll be over here NOT having low self-esteem or self-worth, contrary to not very popular belief, with my best friends.

EDIT: or crushing on teachers. </hamfistedrerail>
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This guy needs to write a biography about Columbus. I would totally buy it.
I can see it now.

trying to make a different's: the life of Columbus

mnjiman

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Re: *Reh2ḱele, *reh2ḱele...
« Reply #89 on: October 29, 2010, 11:04:54 pm »

Better to of love and lost, then to never of loved at all.

I had to say it, the quote seemed to fit so well here.
Anyways,
relationships is like a roller coaster, you have your up's and your down's, your fun and scary moments, but in the end your happy you went along on the ride.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 11:06:39 pm by mnjiman »
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I was thinking more along the lines of this legendary champion, all clad in dented and dinged up steel plate, his blood-drenched axe slung over his back, a notch in the handle for every enemy that saw the swing of that blade as the last sight they ever saw, a battered shield strapped over his arm... and a fluffy, pink stuffed hippo hidden discretely in his breastplate.
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