Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Cthulhu]

It seems like so many people on the internet go into self-imposed exile, but all I can think about when I read it is the scene from Year One where Oh says he's a virgin by choice and Zed says "Not your choice!"

[KaminaSquirtle]

Sorry MSH, but you deceive yourself.  While I personally have no interest in a romantic relationship, friendship is invaluable.  Tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you've never had any truly good friends.  While I agree you shouldn't become the friend of every guy who happens to be looking for a buddy, there are people worthy of trust out there.  I personally am extremely picky about friends, but I have been able to find good ones.

What's really 'self-deceptive bullshit' is thinking you're perfectly fine on your own, with no friends to turn to.  True friendships go far, far deeper than 'worthless infatuation', and I would argue that they give much more lasting satisfaction than almost anything else, at least in my experience.

Do you consider yourself a 'selfish influence'?
If not, then you have to ask yourself, are you considering yourself better than other people?  Do not go down that path.  It does not lead to happiness, or anything else, for that matter.
If so, than what right do you have to complain about other people?  If you are not trying to improve the situation, than you have no right to complain about it.

And while it may feel good to think all humans are just selfish bastards, the world doesn't work that way.  You think you know everything about everyone?  You don't end up better off on your own, isolating yourself from the world because it doesn't work the way you want it to.

Get off your high horse, and get to know people.  You're not better than them.
Maybe you'll actually, *gasp*, learn something from them.

Why would I soil my personal life with the selfish infuences of others, when I can just keep to myself and end up better off?

Possibly because that action is intrinsically far, far more selfish than that of the individuals around you.

Agree.  Listen to Vector.  She has more experience than me, and while I may disagree with her on some points, I still greatly respect her opinion.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Why would I soil my personal life with the selfish infuences of others, when I can just keep to myself and end up better off?

Possibly because that action is intrinsically far, far more selfish than that of the individuals around you.

That doesn't sound like a very good reason to let others tear me down in their own selfishness. We all act with a level of selfishness, but not alowing others to harm me because allowing them to do so will help them doesn't seem so much mental illness as the lack of a sacrifice complex.

Sorry MSH, but you deceive yourself.  While I personally have no interest in a romantic relationship, friendship is invaluable.  Tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you've never had any truly good friends.

You're wrong. All of the people I accepted as friends were good friends, even if that's a very short list.

While I agree you shouldn't become the friend of every guy who happens to be looking for a buddy, there are people worthy of trust out there.  I personally am extremely picky about friends, but I have been able to find good ones.

Good for you.

What's really 'self-deceptive bullshit' is thinking you're perfectly fine on your own, with no friends to turn to.  True friendships go far, far deeper than 'worthless infatuation', and I would argue that they give much more lasting satisfaction than almost anything else, at least in my experience.

I am perfectly fine on my own. Why should I become relient on others instead of only needing myself to function in society?

Do you consider yourself a 'selfish influence'?

We all act with a level of selfishness, but I happen to be myself, so my own selfish influences on my life don't harm it. By sparing others my selfishness towards them in a social relationship, I am doing them a favor.

If not, then you have to ask yourself, are you considering yourself better than other people?  Do not go down that path.  It does not lead to happiness, or anything else, for that matter.

Nope.

If so, than what right do you have to complain about other people?  If you are not trying to improve the situation, than you have no right to complain about it.

I call them as I see them. The situation is just fine how it is, and I'm not complaining, just responding to previous posts one after another.

And while it may feel good to think all humans are just selfish bastards, the world doesn't work that way.  You think you know everything about everyone?  You don't end up better off on your own, isolating yourself from the world because it doesn't work the way you want it to.

I don't think that. I think that I'm better off without social relationships. Is this concept so hard to understand?

[Vector]

That doesn't sound like a very good reason to let others tear me down in their own selfishness. We all act with a level of selfishness, but not alowing others to harm me because allowing them to do so will help them doesn't seem so much mental illness as the lack of a sacrifice complex.

Right, so the best course of action is to strengthen yourself while helping others.  Not all social interactions have to hurt, you know.

[G-Flex]

You know how you'll seriously come to believe that this girl you like is the only one for you and all that other self-deceptive bullshit? Try waiting it out for a week or so instead of making a knee-jerk reaction to try and start a relationship, and watch as your worthless infatuation crashes and burns.

I do wait it out, and I don't deceive myself. Just because I believe in having romantic relationships doesn't mean I believe that my girlfriend is the ~ONE DESTINED TRUE LOVE FROM THE STARS~ (picture that in Myspace glitter text, if you will) or anything like that. We're with each other because a committed romantic relationship between us makes our lives significantly better.

Why would I soil my personal life with the selfish infuences of others, when I can just keep to myself and end up better off?

Possibly because that action is intrinsically far, far more selfish than that of the individuals around you.

That doesn't sound like a very good reason to let others tear me down in their own selfishness. We all act with a level of selfishness, but not alowing others to harm me because allowing them to do so will help them doesn't seem so much mental illness as the lack of a sacrifice complex.

So you think that someone wanting to have a social relationship with you makes them selfish, and means they're trying to "tear you down"? That doesn't sound very rational. Social relationships (of the nature we're discussing) are meant to be mutually beneficial.

I am perfectly fine on my own. Why should I become relient on others instead of only needing myself to function in society?

This doesn't make sense. "Only needing myself" and "function in society" are mutually exclusive terms.

We all act with a level of selfishness, but I happen to be myself, so my own selfish influences on my life don't harm it. By sparing others my selfishness towards them in a social relationship, I am doing them a favor.

What about your selflessness towards them, or their selflessness towards you? If what a friend can do for you is so severely outweighed by what they expect selfishly from you (or what you do for them is outweighed by what you expect selfishly from them), then there's a problem with you, or them, or the relationship.

I don't think that. I think that I'm better off without social relationships. Is this concept so hard to understand?

Yes, it is, because humans are naturally very social creatures and being reclusive to the point of utter friendlessness is generally not considered a healthy thing. The stuff you're saying also betrays a genuine lack of understanding of how social relationships are even supposed to work, and of their actual benefit.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Why would I soil my personal life with the selfish infuences of others, when I can just keep to myself and end up better off?

Possibly because that action is intrinsically far, far more selfish than that of the individuals around you.

That doesn't sound like a very good reason to let others tear me down in their own selfishness. We all act with a level of selfishness, but not alowing others to harm me because allowing them to do so will help them doesn't seem so much mental illness as the lack of a sacrifice complex.

So all social contact harms you?  Every time you time you try to make a friend friend, they 'tear you down' with their selfishness?  You're cutting off contact to human life because every human just hurts one another?

Sorry MSH, but you deceive yourself.  While I personally have no interest in a romantic relationship, friendship is invaluable.  Tell me if I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like you've never had any truly good friends.

You're wrong. All of the people I accepted as friends were good friends, even if that's a very short list.

I would contend that you can't have had good friends if you think all social relationships hurt you.  If you had had real good friends, you would understand the value of social relationships.

What's really 'self-deceptive bullshit' is thinking you're perfectly fine on your own, with no friends to turn to.  True friendships go far, far deeper than 'worthless infatuation', and I would argue that they give much more lasting satisfaction than almost anything else, at least in my experience.

I am perfectly fine on my own. Why should I become relient on others instead of only needing myself to function in society?

Because having friends makes you unable to be self-reliant in society.

Do you consider yourself a 'selfish influence'?

We all act with a level of selfishness, but I happen to be myself, so my own selfish influences on my life don't harm it. By sparing others my selfishness towards them in a social relationship, I am doing them a favor.

Oh look at you, such a martyr.  Sparing them from your horrible behavior, but not improving yourself.  Contrary to what you may think, it is possible to be a nice person.

If so, than what right do you have to complain about other people?  If you are not trying to improve the situation, than you have no right to complain about it.

I call them as I see them. The situation is just fine how it is, and I'm not complaining, just responding to previous posts one after another.

I saw this coming a mile away.  Completely predictable.  Should have accounted for it.
Why not improve your own selfish behavior?  Maybe that will help the world.  And maybe you'll find people more likable then?  Oh wait, you don't give a shit about other people or the world, do you?
Or you do, you care enough about them to avoid them.
I ask you this, then.  What do you want out of life?  What is your goal?  I can't say much more without knowing the answer.

And while it may feel good to think all humans are just selfish bastards, the world doesn't work that way.  You think you know everything about everyone?  You don't end up better off on your own, isolating yourself from the world because it doesn't work the way you want it to.

I don't think that. I think that I'm better off without social relationships. Is this concept so hard to understand?

And I think it's BS to think you can go without a basic human need.  Humans evolved as social animals.  We need social contact to really be happy.  I that so hard to understand?
If you're so right, then why does almost everyone here disagree with you?
Are we all wrong?
While I can't claim to have more life experience than you, many here can.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

So all social contact harms you?  Every time you time you try to make a friend friend, they 'tear you down' with their selfishness?  You're cutting off contact to human life because every human just hurts one another?

You're overcomplicating this, and you know it. I don't desire friends. Interselfishness between people is what I consider the reason of this lack of desire. That's all there is to it.

I would contend that you can't have had good friends if you think all social relationships hurt you.  If you had had real good friends, you would understand the value of social relationships.

You contend incorrectly. Having friends was nice, I suppose, but it also marked the most harmful and unstable part of my life thus far. Shockingly enough, the bullshit drama ended when my friendships faded away.

Because having friends makes you unable to be self-reliant in society.

In a way, yes. If you need to turn to your friends for things like emotional support in times of trauma instead of learning to cope by yourself, then being active in society is relient upon them choosing to help you. People won't always be there for you.

Oh look at you, such a martyr.  Sparing them from your horrible behavior, but not improving yourself.  Contrary to what you may think, it is possible to be a nice person.

I always try to be a good person, and I don't care much for your implication that I'm some sort of monster.

I saw this coming a mile away.  Completely predictable.  Should have accounted for it.
Why not improve your own selfish behavior?  Maybe that will help the world.  And maybe you'll find people more likable then?  Oh wait, you don't give a shit about other people or the world, do you?
Or you do, you care enough about them to avoid them.

For the record, you're begining to piss me off with assumptions like this. I do care about people and the world. I care about it a great deal. Does it really break your worldview that someone can ignore friends and romance but still be anything other than an apathatic sociopath?

I ask you this, then.  What do you want out of life?  What is your goal?  I can't say much more without knowing the answer.

No idea. Life is too open ended for me to be able to ascripe somthing as small as a single goal to it.

And I think it's BS to think you can without a basic human need.  Humans evolved as social animals.  We need social contact to really be happy.  I that so hard to understand?

I have social contact all the time. To do almost anything requires social contact with other humans. To post on this forum is a form of social contact with others.

If you're so right, then why does almost everyone here disagree with you?
Are we all wrong?

Different people happen to value different things. There is no absolute right and wrong in the relam of opinions.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Whatever, I'm obviously not going to change your mind.  No one is gaining anything from this.  I'm certainly not making myself look any better.  I'm leaving this conversation before I say something really stupid.

[G-Flex]

Having friends was nice, I suppose, but it also marked the most harmful and unstable part of my life thus far. Shockingly enough, the bullshit drama ended when my friendships faded away.

What are you, in high school? Of course there's drama, because people your age are immature. A lot of people younger and older than you are immature as well, but high school is a pretty bad place for it.

But you know what? Most people suck it up and deal with it instead of saying "this blows, I'm out of here". If you were to actually care about forming mutually beneficial and fulfilling relationships with people, you'd still try despite the drama, because in the end, you're a more mature person for it and it's worth it.

Seriously, if I used your kind of logic, I would have bailed on the entire concept of socialization in middle school (which was hell), some parts of elementary school (which were hell), or after my first breakup (which was hell). I didn't, and I'm better for it.

Honestly, I feel like you're acting like a typical vaguely-antisocial teenager, but you're trying to sugarcoat it with typical wangsty quasi-logic that makes you look like some kind of special flower who just doesn't "need" other people. Yes, you need other people. We all do, and there are myriad reasons why. Going through life without any close relationships with others is suicidal.

[KaminaSquirtle]

Let me just say that I agree with G-flex 100%.  He knows what he's talking about.
There. I'm gone.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Whatever, I'm obviously not going to change your mind.  No one is gaining anything from this.  I'm certainly not making myself look any better.  I'm leaving this conversation before I say something really stupid.

We're gaining insight into the views of others through this, which is certainly somthing. Debate is the best way for people to mutualy understand and improve one another.

But you know what? Most people suck it up and deal with it instead of saying "this blows, I'm out of here". If you were to actually care about forming mutually beneficial and fulfilling relationships with people, you'd still try despite the drama, because in the end, you're a more mature person for it and it's worth it.

Worth is subjective. To me, the drama is not worth it.

Seriously, if I used your kind of logic, I would have bailed on the entire concept of socialization in middle school (which was hell), some parts of elementary school (which were hell), or after my first breakup (which was hell). I didn't, and I'm better for it.

Never socializing isn't good for you. I'm speaking of social relationships.

Honestly, I feel like you're acting like a typical vaguely-antisocial teenager, but you're trying to sugarcoat it with typical wangsty quasi-logic that makes you look like some kind of special flower who just doesn't "need" other people.

Now that's just silly. I'm sure there are other reasonable people out there who share my opinion. Being a minority opinion doesn't make anyone "special".

Yes, you need other people. We all do, and there are myriad reasons why. Going through life without any close relationships with others is suicidal.

No it isn't. While we may need to rely on other people, endlessly forming social relationships and getting tangled up in a fragile web of interdependence seems like a bad idea from start to finish to me.

[Argembarger]

Never socializing isn't good for you. I'm speaking of social relationships.

Wait, hold up, can you elaborate a bit here, I'm confused. How do you socialize without forming relationships? It could be that your definition of a relationship is simply different/more extreme than ours... and thus, misunderstanding.

[G-Flex]

You're already part of a "fragile web of interdependence". That's how human society works, and you can't escape it. The only difference in your case is that your support structure is essentially nonexistent.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Never socializing isn't good for you. I'm speaking of social relationships.

Wait, hold up, can you elaborate a bit here, I'm confused. How do you socialize without forming relationships? It could be that your definition of a relationship is simply different/more extreme than ours... and thus, misunderstanding.

You can be around other people and speak to them, or act to a common goal without even liking one another, much less being friends. That's the extent of socialization under my definiton. I don't need to go around having friends or romance to do that.

I the same vein, I think you guys may be picturing me as some pale-skinned lunatic who remains indoors 24/7 and hates the concept of life itself, which is simply not reality. 

You're already part of a "fragile web of interdependence". That's how human society works, and you can't escape it. The only difference in your case is that your support structure is essentially nonexistent.

I can reduce the superfluous parts of that web, however, so that when it inevitably collapses I have a real chance at recovery instead of an emotional wreck.

[G-Flex]

I can reduce the superfluous parts of that web, however, so that when it inevitably collapses I have a real chance at recovery instead of an emotional wreck.

• You think that your social support structure totally collapsing is "inevitable". You also seem to think that you have a better chance of recovering from crisis if you don't have anyone close to you, which is just plain silly.
• You think close relationships are "superfluous". You don't actually seem to understand their benefits.

These things lead me to believe that, no, this isn't a well-informed and rational decision on your part in the slightest.

Also, for what it's worth, how old are you? Do you still live with your parents?
[/list]