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[Psieye]

I actually took time out of my day to register to a forum for once. Unfortunately, it's because I can't help but express my discontent for this recent DF trend... aka Adventure Mode.

I don't like adventure mode. The reason why I look forward to new releases of dwarf fortress is to see new things added to... (wait for it)... DWARF FORTRESS.

Seriously, separate these games into different builds with an export feature or something. I started playing this because I like Dwarf Fortress. It's cool and all that some people enjoy Adventure mode, and you're having a good time writing new content for it... but it's really REALLY disappointing reading news updates about Adventure mode additions when all that time could be put into making Dwarf Fortress more awesome. In fact, with the recent town and farm additions to DF:AdventureMode, you've reportedly hindered gameplay for Fortress mode. Thus, I've restrained from downloading beyond the .12 build.

I know it's not constructive of me to be a bitch about this, but I wanted a voice to at least be heard that I'd much rather work was done on Fortress Mode with another arc rather than have a year of updates that adds nothing to DF:Fortress Mode... which is the core of the game.

It's like if Bungie was working on another Halo game, then stopped halfway through to make a Halo MMO. Sure some people would get all excited about the MMO, but that's not even the same genre as the playerbase who loved the game as it was originally. I love your games and work, Toady, but ffs work on Dwarf Fortress plz.

You have expressed your opinion, and that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, including Toady. It's true, a lot of us are here for Fortress mode, but that's just a fraction of Toady's vision for his life's work. It's very difficult comparing this situation with your Halo scenario because that is a commercial venture and this isn't. We aren't customers or investors - we're spectators tossing donations into the coin box while watching someone build their work of art over decades. We happen to get really involved with the 'spectating' sure, but we're just that - spectators.

[Hoooooooar]

i like fortress mode, the other modes mean nothing, and i too am saddened from the updates, but its a free game and its awesome

[Lord Darkstar]

I actually took time out of my day to register to a forum for once. Unfortunately, it's because I can't help but express my discontent for this recent DF trend... aka Adventure Mode.

I don't like adventure mode. The reason why I look forward to new releases of dwarf fortress is to see new things added to... (wait for it)... DWARF FORTRESS.

Seriously, separate these games into different builds with an export feature or something. I started playing this because I like Dwarf Fortress. It's cool and all that some people enjoy Adventure mode, and you're having a good time writing new content for it... but it's really REALLY disappointing reading news updates about Adventure mode additions when all that time could be put into making Dwarf Fortress more awesome. In fact, with the recent town and farm additions to DF:AdventureMode, you've reportedly hindered gameplay for Fortress mode. Thus, I've restrained from downloading beyond the .12 build.

I know it's not constructive of me to be a bitch about this, but I wanted a voice to at least be heard that I'd much rather work was done on Fortress Mode with another arc rather than have a year of updates that adds nothing to DF:Fortress Mode... which is the core of the game.

Ok, you are heard. Heck, I agree, DF is just Fortress to me as well. But--- as someone fascinated by "dwarf" mode and not adventurer, I want to point out:

• Dwarf mode bugs are still getting fixed
• Dwarf mode is getting new content (the night creatures will be a new hassle in dwarf mode)
• In the future, people will be able to build "DUNGEONS" in DF, and then share them for their friends to adventure through (not so much now since cage traps kill this) - This feature will draw more players to DF, and that will end up with more money supporting Toady so we can get more dwarf mode advances!

Just saying--- don't feel abandoned. Look at the advances and bug fixes we are getting. Take heart and this pint of dwarven ale. Remember, tomorrow brings us closer to a fuller DF. It might be a big step. It might be a tiny, tiny hoary marmot step. But we draw ever closer to a fuller DF.

[Veroule]

I don't like adventure mode. The reason why I look forward to new releases of dwarf fortress is to see new things added to... (wait for it)... DWARF FORTRESS.

Seriously, separate these games into different builds with an export feature or something. I started playing this because I like Dwarf Fortress. It's cool and all that some people enjoy Adventure mode, and you're having a good time writing new content for it... but it's really REALLY disappointing reading news updates about Adventure mode additions when all that time could be put into making Dwarf Fortress more awesome. In fact, with the recent town and farm additions to DF:AdventureMode, you've reportedly hindered gameplay for Fortress mode. Thus, I've restrained from downloading beyond the .12 build.

I know it's not constructive of me to be a bitch about this, but I wanted a voice to at least be heard that I'd much rather work was done on Fortress Mode with another arc rather than have a year of updates that adds nothing to DF:Fortress Mode... which is the core of the game.

If you look at it and think about it; all the work Toady is currently doing is for the development of Fortress mode.  Trade has always revolved around food, and armies can't do anything if they can't eat.  The development of towns provides the sources for trade, and will lead to more natural supply/demand relationships.  The gain of sprawl increases the need for military in the towns, provides additional reasons for battles and wars, and leads to tactics like 'scorched earth'. 

This stuff is the foundation for both the Caravan/Trade Arc and the Army Arc.  Good foundations lead to good structures.  You don't build a house by making a finished roof and levitating it in place while everything else is built, building a game is much the same.

[Double A]

I don't like adventure mode. The reason why I look forward to new releases of dwarf fortress is to see new things added to... (wait for it)... DWARF FORTRESS.

Seriously, separate these games into different builds with an export feature or something. I started playing this because I like Dwarf Fortress. It's cool and all that some people enjoy Adventure mode, and you're having a good time writing new content for it... but it's really REALLY disappointing reading news updates about Adventure mode additions when all that time could be put into making Dwarf Fortress more awesome. In fact, with the recent town and farm additions to DF:AdventureMode, you've reportedly hindered gameplay for Fortress mode. Thus, I've restrained from downloading beyond the .12 build.

I know it's not constructive of me to be a bitch about this, but I wanted a voice to at least be heard that I'd much rather work was done on Fortress Mode with another arc rather than have a year of updates that adds nothing to DF:Fortress Mode... which is the core of the game.

If you look at it and think about it; all the work Toady is currently doing is for the development of Fortress mode.  Trade has always revolved around food, and armies can't do anything if they can't eat.  The development of towns provides the sources for trade, and will lead to more natural supply/demand relationships.  The gain of sprawl increases the need for military in the towns, provides additional reasons for battles and wars, and leads to tactics like 'scorched earth'. 

This stuff is the foundation for both the Caravan/Trade Arc and the Army Arc.  Good foundations lead to good structures.  You don't build a house by making a finished roof and levitating it in place while everything else is built, building a game is much the same.

I think I've done that a few times in the game...

[Fedor]

We aren't customers or investors - we're spectators tossing donations into the coin box while watching someone build their work of art over decades. We happen to get really involved with the 'spectating' sure, but we're just that - spectators.

Sigged!

[monk12]

I actually took time out of my day to register to a forum for once. Unfortunately, it's because I can't help but express my discontent for this recent DF trend... aka Adventure Mode.

I don't like adventure mode. The reason why I look forward to new releases of dwarf fortress is to see new things added to... (wait for it)... DWARF FORTRESS.

Seriously, separate these games into different builds with an export feature or something. I started playing this because I like Dwarf Fortress. It's cool and all that some people enjoy Adventure mode, and you're having a good time writing new content for it... but it's really REALLY disappointing reading news updates about Adventure mode additions when all that time could be put into making Dwarf Fortress more awesome. In fact, with the recent town and farm additions to DF:AdventureMode, you've reportedly hindered gameplay for Fortress mode. Thus, I've restrained from downloading beyond the .12 build.

I know it's not constructive of me to be a bitch about this, but I wanted a voice to at least be heard that I'd much rather work was done on Fortress Mode with another arc rather than have a year of updates that adds nothing to DF:Fortress Mode... which is the core of the game.

It's like if Bungie was working on another Halo game, then stopped halfway through to make a Halo MMO. Sure some people would get all excited about the MMO, but that's not even the same genre as the playerbase who loved the game as it was originally. I love your games and work, Toady, but ffs work on Dwarf Fortress plz.

A couple thoughts;

Reading up on the history of DF, and adventure mode is really the focus of DF. Thats how it all started; the idea that you could build your own dungeons and traps and fill them with treasure, and then come back and explore in an RPG. Fortress Mode has gotten a lot of love, but all in all it is intended to make adventure mode more interesting. They are two halves of the same whole.

At least part of the reason you (and I) dislike adventure mode is because it is far less developed than Fortress Mode. The fact that Toady is devoting attention back to adventure mode is not an indication of him pulling effort away from Fortress Mode, but is more of an effort to balance the game of Dwarf Fortress as a whole.

And as Veroule pointed out, the street goes both ways. Adventure mode benefits from advances in Fortress Mode, and Fortress Mode benefits from advances in Adventure Mode. Veroule pointed out the fact that many things being done in adventure mode are necessary for the advancement of Fortress Mode, but I would like to add that the focus on single characters and the way they interact with NPC's brings focus on the little details, and those details are what make DF great. For examples of spillover, just salivate over the recent dev posts. Those things started as additions to adventure mode that are likely to make Fortress mode more interesting.

[TomiTapio]

It's Toady's game. He could scrap it all tomorrow and make it a Sims game if he wanted. Remember, we play this godly game because the All High and Might Toady allows it. Also, some people play this for the Adventure Mode. (Not me, though I have tried it a few times and it's pretty fun.)

I find adventure mode good for testing weapons and freshly-made new monsters.
If your mace isn't killing the villager (or leopard) in 15-20 hits, at superdwarven strength, you need to adjust the weapon to be deadlier. Or make organ-tissue bleed more. And delete robes from the world because they are great defense thanks to large surface area..
It's sweet that DF can be fine-tuned in the raws!


> cage traps
wooden cages defeat fire-breathing dragons in vanilla DF... I think the procedurally-generated new titans are all trap-avoiding?? And thus smarter than dragons.

Adventure mode is short on loot, and could use meeting wandering armor-wearing humanoids. Maybe the night-creatures will drop armor?
Would be cool to meet and fight a goblin adventurer. And get its items.

[Aarik]

Two things.

1: How can I get Slade items in the arena, I can't find them and I want to know If I have to turn something on or something.

2: How do I give Breast-plates pauldrons, or otherwise make it defend the shoulders?

[Lord Darkstar]

You don't build a house by making a finished roof and levitating it in place while everything else is built, building a game is much the same.

Well, you can in software. Very easy, actually. In fact, it's practically an industry standard to do it that way, since the investers only see a "top down" view of the house, and only the coders will ever walk around in the basement and ground levels anyways. The users will be in the uppermost stories, so you can make a great roof for the investors, some nice looking rooms on the topmost floor where the users will only ever go, and make the rest of it all totter on a stack of soap support columns, because all the time allocated went into the roof and making the user rooms "nice".

[Ethicalfive]

Lol! Well a software building does not need to support itself at all, unless that software has some serious gravity and material simulating behaviours. I don't think the analogy works other than with a real structure, it must require the sturdy foundations in place to hold the rest in place, the sturdier, the longer that structure is likely to stay functional and stable.

I think toady is doing a great job here, though personally I havent delved into adventure mode, it is and will be an ever more integral part of dwarf fortress. I say give adventure mode all the attention it needs! One day I want it to be tempting enough to play.

[Chromasphere]

We aren't customers or investors - we're spectators tossing donations into the coin box while watching someone build their work of art

I love poetry

[Double A]

Still can't play .16

[Lord Darkstar]

Lol! Well a software building does not need to support itself at all, unless that software has some serious gravity and material simulating behaviours. I don't think the analogy works other than with a real structure, it must require the sturdy foundations in place to hold the rest in place, the sturdier, the longer that structure is likely to stay functional and stable.

Ethicalfive, we are talking about software. An entertainment software called "Slaves to Armok: God of Blood: Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress". Not a real world house.

Sturdy houses have been built for litarlly hundreds of thousands of years without any foundation. They often last longer then the humans dwelling in them, so again, problems with your analogy.

Software stability isn't deteremined by "foundation". It is determined by good memory management technology and very little else in the modern language Toady is using. Memory (Resource) management is only an issue in modern coding when you are dealing with graphical resources. Toady is avoiding most of that, thanks to his approach.

And Toady has been ripping the heart and foundation out of DF on a regular basis, using his own words and what he has told us.

Games need a solid vision of what they are to bring to fruition. They are a digital work of art. The clearer the vision, the better the chance the software will reflect that. If it is a fun vision, then people will enjoy the game. If it isn't, well--- hopefully the coders had fun making it, if it isn't a commercial venture.

[Johuotar]

I mostly play Dwarf mode, but when the adventure mode gets better I'l surely find it amusing too.
The problem I find in 3.16 is the amount of civs everywhere like mushrooms in rain.