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[Jonathan S. Fox]

(Using an Intel Mac, on the off-chance it's relevant.)

So basically:

1. I alt-moved into the tile above a fortification.
2. I fell INTO the fortification tile.
3. I apparently became paralyzed and was, after about 15-20 rounds of combat, killed by a hostile crossbowman.

Detailed explanation:

I was recently at a goblin fortress, and spotted the goblin elite crossbowman I was hunting through fortifications. The base of the tower was several levels down, and the fortifications around the rooftop were actually butting up against the ground below this level. So:

code:

Level Z:
-----------
-----------
-----------
...vvv-v...
.....vvv...
..@........
@ - ultra-uber dwarf adventurer
- - view of color of the level below
. - unsmoothed earth ground
v - down ramp
Level Z-1:
+++++++g+++
+++++++++++
===========
###^^^.^###
#####^^^###
###########
g - goblin crossbowman
+ - smoothed floor
= - fortifications
# - earth
^ - up ramp
. - unsmoothed earth ground

In my noble effort to close with the goblin at any cost, I charged toward the fortifications (not trying to use the ramps, actually ran up across the ground) and alt-moved into a space above the fortifications, unsure of what would happen. Foolish dwarf! I fell down a level and landed INSIDE the fortification tile, where two pages immediately scrolled by as my perfectly agile with multiple levels of legendary shield user dwarf (and two shields) was promptly shot to death by the elite goblin crossbowman. Here's the edited log:

quote:You slam into an obstacle!

(...6 attacks by an antman against a goblin drunk...)

The flying =<<Iron>>= strikes You in the left lower arm!
It is pierced!
Your left elbow has been sprained!

(...22 attacks by a troglodyte and an antman against the goblin drunk...)

The flying =<<Iron>>= strikes You in the upper body!
It is pierced through completely!
The =<<Iron>>= has lodged firmly in the wound!
You have been shot and killed.

Reading this log, note that the goblin crossbowman was actually at a pretty extreme range, so I suspect that there were unreported missed shots in the combat rounds that were flying by. I can't tell for sure since I didn't get any moves during this time. Main thing to note aside from the amount of time that goes by is that nothing happened to my character that would slow it down besides falling one level and hitting the ground (didn't pass out or anything).

[numerobis]

I have jumped into fortifications without much issue.  I was stunned for a bit, which would indeed be suboptimal when confronting an archer.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

And you were able to then move out of them?

I anticipated stunning, but not having my character with max stats across the board being totally incapacitated for 15-20 combat rounds -- if that was the only problem, then that seems like a separate issue, as it really shouldn't put me out that long to drop one level.

But even if that's working as intended, or maybe the judgment of time is thrown off by, say, a crowd of similarly named creatures brawling in the log, there's still the issue of dropping into the fortification tile in the first place. That does not strike me as appropriate behavior, given that fortifications act like impassible walls on their own z-level.

[numerobis]

quote:Originally posted by Jonathan S. Fox:
<STRONG>And you were able to then move out of them?</STRONG>

Yes.

I agree that fortifications are a bit schizophrenic about whether they're there or not.

[Toady One]

It's an annoying problem -- I don't want them to have floor tiles associated above, but they don't seem to act like trees do with respect to projectiles.  In either case, you'd end up stranded in an odd square.  I've jumped on fortifications before and didn't have the 15-20 round problem.  Perhaps you got a really crappy stun roll, but I'm not sure.

[ToxicFrog]

quote:Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>It's an annoying problem -- I don't want them to have floor tiles associated above, but they don't seem to act like trees do with respect to projectiles.</STRONG>

Why don't you want floor tiles above them? I note that if you fortify native stone, or build a stone wall and then fortify it, you do get a floor - so all not having them present floors does is add another step to the (already tedious) task of building terrain - build wall, then fortify, rather than build fortification.

[numerobis]

quote:Originally posted by ToxicFrog:
<STRONG>Why don't you want floor tiles above them?</STRONG>

Because they're supposed to be ramparts.

[ToxicFrog]

I always thought they were arrow slits. And if they're ramparts, shouldn't fortifying an existing wall remove the floor above it?

[Footkerchief]

A related problem: if you build one fortification on top of another fortification, and then remove the top fortification, the rubble falls "into" the bottom fortification and can't be removed until you remove the bottom fortification as well.

[Draco18s]

Regardless of ramparts vs. arrow slits, you should be able to remove objects from them without tearing them down.  Goblin chunks get stuck in them far to frequently.

[Footkerchief]

quote:Originally posted by Draco18s:
<STRONG>Regardless of ramparts vs. arrow slits, you should be able to remove objects from them without tearing them down.  Goblin chunks get stuck in them far to frequently.</STRONG>

This too.  I always have nasty bits of goblin flying up to the ramparts and getting stuck "in" the fortifications.  The game seems to regard whatever's "in" the fortification as being on top, so you can't even see the fortification and it looks like you have a hole in the wall.

[Jonathan S. Fox]

I think of them as an abstracted special wall-like thing that represents arrow slits if in walls with a roof over them and ramparts if on the roof of something. So a castle would have abstract fortifications both on the top and in a few places down the exterior walls, representing both the ramparts and the arrow slits. In both cases I think it would be ideal if stuff would just not be allowed to get stuck in them in the first place.

[Kagus]

I've jumped onto, and off of, fortifications before.  I think the reason your thought you were paralyzed was because a lot of idiocy was going on between the fortress inhabitants and the chasm dwellers.  After all, the elite crossbowman only got off two shots by the looks of things, and getting yourself stunned from a fall can easily provide enough time for two shots.

You just happened to get, in a sequenced list, the simultaneous punchings and toe-grabbing of twenty or so troggys and goblins.