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[nenjin]

It's funny. I'm actually involved in a research project right now that is going around the country talking to engineering faculty about how they ended up in academia, what their path from undergrad to their current position was and what the state of engineering is right now in America.

I would recommend taking a few years off from school after the BS to work as an engineer.  Don't go straight through to the Ph.D. without experiencing anything but academia.  Working for a few years gets you:

I've heard it both ways. Some engineers didn't enjoy industry at all. They weren't stimulated by the work and that seems key to everything involving the hard sciences: you have to be very interested in the work. But paychecks even in entry-level engineering jobs are great, compared to what most people get offered out of college. (I think my brother, with a bachelor in Mech E, started out at $40k? doing peon-level stuff fresh out of school.)

If possible, tour prospective schools and try to talk to professors or instructors who aren't part of the tour.  See if they'll even give you the time of day.  When looking at graduate schools, you're more likely to be talking to specific professors at different departments who do research in the specific area you're interested in.

This is pretty important. Which is why I said have an idea at least what you'd prefer doing, because there's a semi-large split in Engineering between industry and academia. The progression for MANY engineers is 2 to 4 years in industry with a bachelors or masters, then returning to school for their PhD and taking an assistant faculty position. The two aren't mutually exclusive at all...but they're considered two separate paths.

[Ricky]

just craft a couple  hundred mechanisms, that should make you legendary, shouldnt it?

[Grakelin]

Engineering in Canada? University of Waterloo comes to mind.

Yep, Waterloo is the engineering school of Canada. Not sure if we have Aerospace, but I imagine we do.

York and Toronto.

I'm not sure what this post means. Are you suggesting York and Toronto have better reputations as Engineering schools than UW? That's cool if that's the opinion you've formed, but make sure that you've done the research.

[The Doctor]

Meant that those are apparently two schools with Aerospace courses, if I remember correctly.


EDIT: Ah, there's a Graduate and Undergraduate program at University of Toronto :U

[Muz]

BTW, there's another reason a lot of people work before doing a postgrad... they get their postgraduate degrees fully sponsored by their employer, and get an employment stipend on top of it. That's right, they're getting paid to sit around and study.

Also, if you can't afford a really good private school (financially), consider a good public college. The best state schools aren't always as good as the best private schools, but they're usually better than the average private ones. And a lot cheaper.

[sneakey pete]

BTW, there's another reason a lot of people work before doing a postgrad... they get their postgraduate degrees fully sponsored by their employer, and get an employment stipend on top of it. That's right, they're getting paid to sit around and study.

you say that like its easy.

Seems like Studying engineering over here (in Aus) is rather different. seems like we have fewer but more well established uni's with more rigid courses: i think there's something like 75% of the course load is specified, the other 25% is engineering related electives.

People skills are really understaed when it comes to engineering: you need decent people skills, more depending on what area of work you go into. Eg, consultants are pretty much expected to try and build up conatcs with people in their fields, whereas a designer working for a company may just need to work well with his team, management etc.

With regards to post grad, i'm not exactly sure how many people come and do it, but its not a sure thing at all. Regardless, work will probably help, otherwise you might end up as one of those out of touch academics who've been stuying for almost a decade and haven't had a real job the whole time

[Virex]

People skills are really understaed when it comes to engineering: you need decent people skills, more depending on what area of work you go into. Eg, consultants are pretty much expected to try and build up conatcs with people in their fields, whereas a designer working for a company may just need to work well with his team, management etc.

Best thing you can do is hook up with a students association/study association/sport association and see if you can become an active member. Organizing activities can really boost some of the skills colleges can't teach you.

[Mattasmack]

...
I've heard it both ways. Some engineers didn't enjoy industry at all. They weren't stimulated by the work and that seems key to everything involving the hard sciences: you have to be very interested in the work. But paychecks even in entry-level engineering jobs are great, compared to what most people get offered out of college. (I think my brother, with a bachelor in Mech E, started out at $40k? doing peon-level stuff fresh out of school.)

Yup, sometimes you discover the work isn't interesting, and that is valuable knowledge too.  In my case, I went back to grad school because after about 3.5 years I realized I disliked my job and I used grad school to change fields (from mechatronics/electronics packaging to the thermal sciences).

And yeah, it depends on the industry and the area but engineering jobs tend to pay well.  Which can make going back to grad school (and a grad assistant's salary) less attractive.

... The progression for MANY engineers is 2 to 4 years in industry with a bachelors or masters, then returning to school for their PhD and taking an assistant faculty position. The two aren't mutually exclusive at all...but they're considered two separate paths.

Personally, I think that's the path professors SHOULD take.  And in my own experience in academia, my time in industry was never seen as a drawback.  Most undergrad engineering students aren't going to grad school; they're going to go out into the workplace and work as engineers.  How can a professor with no industry experience prepare students to work in industry?  I know this was a problem for my graduate advisor, who had always been in academia.  He was a good educator in many ways but his idea of 'design problems' was pretty strange; I don't think he really had much idea of what most engineers actually do.

[nenjin]

How can a professor with no industry experience prepare students to work in industry?

They're not only there to train the next generation of entry level engineers. They're also there to do research, and find students interested enough in actual research to recruit. I don't disagree that service should be a college's primary goal (and that real world experience is great and pure academics can lose touch fast), but I don't think everyone has to go into industry. Some people really do love research rather than application, and they like some of the freedoms they get in academia versus industry.

It really depends on the school and the program. Whether the college is a ResearchOne institution or whether they're emphasis is more on service. Those are good questions to ask when you start touring schools, what does this college focus on? (And this is the American 2-year, 4-year model, I don't know how it shakes out in Canada.)

[mendonca]

Hey there,

I'm an Aerospace Engineering graduate, and now work in HVAC design. I struggled technically through University (mainly due to lack of effort) but I have found that a mediocre degree (2:2) at a good university was enough to not hinder me at all (once I had managed to gain meaningful employment - and prove myself in industry as highly capable).

One point I wanted to make was that whilst everyone seems to be pointing out that there is a huge emphasis on advanced mathematics (which I wouldn't dispute in terms of pure engineering) actually in the real world you could end up in a job where the mathematical load is light and actually the emphasis is more towards the ability to intelligently analyse problems, understand systems, have a keen grasp of general physical principles etc. and communicate what these things mean, to other people who are less well versed in such matters.

Also in building systems design (what I work in), the biggest problems are not the relatively simple issues of energy transfer, airflow, refrigeration cycles etc. (which obey known laws of physics) but actually dealing with the idiots that are trying to build the building in the first place (who obey different laws altogether).

I suppose the point was it wouldn't hurt to get an idea where and how you want to apply your learned engineering skills, and don't be immediately scared away by maths, the engineering industry needs communicators as well.

But good luck anyway, I wish you all the best in your studies and search for education.

[Virex]

Also, what seems like complex mathematics right now will become second nature if you put enough effort in it. How much is needed depends on your prior schooling, your teacher and yourself but I'd dare say that anyone considering engineering can learn the required skills if they put their will into it.

[Mattasmack]

Nenjin, what you say is true, but I guess where I get antsy is when professors who have always been in academia start teaching required undergrad classes.  The majority of the students in such a class will not go on to grad school, and if the professor teaches the class as preparation for grad school, he does those students a disservice.  Such a professor may actually want to teach, and not realize that he doesn't know what the students need to learn to be effective professionals.  (e.g., Muz's post about getting taught the theoretical part but not the practical.)

[nenjin]

Most don't do that, or they put out feelers for those that have an interest in graduate school first instead of just lecturing straight to it. There's also always freshmen seminars and stuff like that for those interested in learning more about going for another degree.

As you start getting near senior-level courses, the start talking about grad school quite a bit more. It varies by major (I was a journo and very few journos get a masters or more, so they didn't ever mention graduate school.) Engineering, actual science majors and purely academic majors tend to talk about it a lot more to their students.

[Grakelin]

On Professors: Most of them actually do work (or have worked) in their industry in some capacity or another. I have never had a prof, for any subject, who didn't.

[Muz]

On Professors: Most of them actually do work (or have worked) in their industry in some capacity or another. I have never had a prof, for any subject, who didn't.

It varies greatly from school to school. Nearly half of my professors work in the industry (not including the mandatory industrial training in engineering courses), but in my previous school, nearly none of them did. Surprisingly few are competent at teaching what they know; some see it as just a job requirement, when they really wanted to do research.

A few are incompetent in actually implementing anything, but are masters of their theories. If you do control systems, try and see how many of them can actually design a simple elevator control system in less than a week. They become academics just so they don't actually have to do anything (that horrible "if you can, do. if you can't, teach")