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[MetalSlimeHunt]

Justice. We can always have order. Justice is too rare to pass up.

[Realmfighter]

I chose that option that is not a poorly defined concept that could mean just about anything.

[Leafsnail]

Of course not. But if you only hold obeying the law as a convenience and not a moral duty, then what if you determine a law is immoral? What if you see a rich man and think only through greed and self-interest did that rich man take money from the community to line his pockets? Then you have a moral reason to take back what he stole, and if breaking the law doesn't violate your sense of morality, then its simply a question of how badly you want to punish the rich man for his wrongdoing compared to the chances you'll be punished for breaking an injust law.

This is where "dissuaded by punishments" come in.  You may go along with it, but you'd still think it's immoral.

Ever read the Communist Manifesto? Its an appeal to morality in the face of immoral law imposed by immoral government.

Is there a Godwin's Law equivalent for communism?

[Nikov]

Dissuaded by punishment against an unjust law protecting an unjust faction? That boils over in revolutions, not elections. But being dissuaded from lawbreaking by a faith that you can change the law to punish the unjust? That is the basis of good government.

[smigenboger]

Is there a Godwin's Law equivalent for communism?

Stoners

[Nikov]

Is there a Godwin's Law equivalent for communism?

Stoners

Goddamn stoners. Raaaaaaaeeeeeeeeg!

[Realmfighter]

Government is who ever has the most guns at one time, and laws are thing they tell you not to do or you'll get a gun'in.

I people call the gunners unjust and then themselves get lots of gun, then they become the Government and they do what they will.

Simple.

[Leafsnail]

Dissuaded by punishment against an unjust law protecting an unjust faction? That boils over in revolutions, not elections. But being dissuaded from lawbreaking by a faith that you can change the law to punish the unjust? That is the basis of good government.

Yeah... that's basically what I said.  But that doesn't mean you have to morally support what the government is doing.

[Earthquake Damage]

If guns make the government, then Costa Rica sure is confusing.  I guess nobody else there has much firepower either.

[Realmfighter]

Costa Rica maintains small forces capable of law enforcement and foreign peacekeeping

Guns.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

[Nikov]

I never said you had to morally support what the government was doing, only that one should consider it morally wrong to break the laws created by a lawful government.

I really don't see what's so absurd about that.

Bauglir, I thought it a distinction worth making, and I think we've had a nice talk about this. I'm not sure why you think I'm being inflammatory.

[Realmfighter]

Heh, you just said lawful in terms of entity's that create laws.

[Earthquake Damage]

I never said you had to morally support what the government was doing, only that one should consider it morally wrong to break the laws created by a lawful government.

What constitutes an unlawful government?  If the government defines the law, then surely it's lawful by definition.

Ninja'd.  I think...

[Leafsnail]

Fair enough - I'll aknowledge that such a position is possible, even if it seems that in practise it doesn't happen so much if people think they can get away with it.