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[Shades]

I think we're seeing the same sort of unheaval in information with the internet that we had with the printing press, and trying to adapt laws written for a centuries-old dynamic for a modern one isn't the solution. Information businesses should start learning how to make money in spite of piracy. We're already seeing games manage this with pay-to-play subscriptions and microtransactions or registered online gaming servers. Perhaps music companies should recognize their music will be copied and distributed and focus on making money with concerts and merchandise, which can't be torrented.

They do make money in spite of piracy, they just think that they can make more still. In fact if you actually times the number of pirated copies of things by the value they claim back per instant of copyright infringement then you end up with a value slightly higher than the total amount of money on the planet

If you times the value of the average product with the estimated pirated to sales and the total know of assumed pirates you end up with a number slightly lower than that lost to 'shrinkage' and far lower than the amount spend on protection.

We will ignore the claims of piracy supporting sales as there is little enough evidence of anything there. But I agree there is lots more companies could do to tap into new markets.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

I think we're seeing the same sort of unheaval in information with the internet that we had with the printing press, and trying to adapt laws written for a centuries-old dynamic for a modern one isn't the solution. Information businesses should start learning how to make money in spite of piracy. We're already seeing games manage this with pay-to-play subscriptions and microtransactions or registered online gaming servers. Perhaps music companies should recognize their music will be copied and distributed and focus on making money with concerts and merchandise, which can't be torrented.

++

Although it should be noted that that's how the vast majority of musicians already make most of their money, it's just the record labels that make money off the sale of disks and whatnot. And, despite their bullshit about losing money to piracy, their profits are still increasing, just not at the same rate they were before (which was more an aberration than the norm, caused by the transition to cds, which led to people buying music they already had on tape again). And the movie studies are making money hand over fist, and that's increasing at an unprecedented rate. Yet they too scream about losing money to piracy. Same thing with the game and software industries. So the answer is less "they need to change their business model" and more "they need to shut the fuck up with their goddamn lies about gloom and doom, and stop bribing congress to act on said goddamn lies".

We will ignore the claims of piracy supporting sales as there is little enough evidence of anything there. But I agree there is lots more companies could do to tap into new markets.

Except for, you know, the studies that show just that, and the overwhelming dearth of studies showing the opposite...

[Leafsnail]

In terms of music, it's definitely the record companies rather than the artists who suffer from piracy (record deals are most helpful for promoting musician's live events to them, anyway, and piracy does the same).  I guess, in that way, it's kindof like the middle man is being eliminated (it's rather different for film and games, though, and I don't really know much about the way that'd work).

[Shades]

Except for, you know, the studies that show just that, and the overwhelming dearth of studies showing the opposite...

I'm not aware of anything that actually show it, although I've read a few that suggest it's likely and at the very least enough to displace any of the negative effects. If you have links to better studies I'd be interested to see.

[Sir Pseudonymous]

Just search the Ars Technica archives, they've had several articles about various studies that showed increase in sales correlated with rate of filesharing, one in the UK, one in Northern France I believe (might have been something else filesharing related...), and one in the Netherlands.

[Shades]

Just search the Ars Technica archives, they've had several articles about various studies that showed increase in sales correlated with rate of filesharing, one in the UK, one in Northern France I believe (might have been something else filesharing related...), and one in the Netherlands.

Correlation is not causation. And although I personally think there is a direct positive link (being that I've witnessed it first hand) I can't prove a general trend. Don't forget profit (although not sales numerically) and piracy have both been increasing since they each started.

[Aklyon]

Correlation is not causation!

Indeed.

[Leafsnail]

Correlation is not causation. And although I personally think there is a direct positive link (being that I've witnessed it first hand) I can't prove a general trend. Don't forget profit (although not sales numerically) and piracy have both been increasing since they each started.

The creative industries are clearly being strangled to death by piracy!  To such an extent that their profits are still rising!

[Akura]

succubi? WE MUST BLOW THEM UP! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

But we already blow them up. Well, not mine. It's got an automatic pump.

Correlation is not causation. And although I personally think there is a direct positive link (being that I've witnessed it first hand) I can't prove a general trend. Don't forget profit (although not sales numerically) and piracy have both been increasing since they each started.

The creative industries are clearly being strangled to death by piracy!  To such an extent that their profits are still rising!

Well , they say that strangulation can get a rise from-
Akura cancels Post: Interupted by Censor.
Akura has been struck down.

[Aklyon]

the kind from Psychonauts, right?

[smigenboger]

It's like Death of a Salesman, but with record companies.

[Virex]

Situations like this make me wonder what the value of an unenforced law is. Do people abide laws only because they fear punishment, or because they see them as moral guidelines? Because I've got a sneaking suspicion that removing anti-piracy laws would give many the idea that it's no longer wrong to not pay people for their work. Due to practical reasons, buying software is already a kind of charity, but one people willingly engage in because it's the right thing to do. If that was removed, I wonder how many would still spend money on software. 
In other words, I believe that even though they're poorly enforced, anti-piracy laws do keep the system ticking and what's more is that both removing them and making them very strict would cause all kinds of unintended problems.

[Realmfighter]

Thats the kind of thing you would need scientific backing to post in a debate.

[Leafsnail]

Yeah... I mean, when they introduced Prohibition, suddenly everyone thought it was morally wrong to drink.  Similarly, anti-drug laws...

I dunno, really.  I guess anti-piracy laws scare off a few people, but I doubt they send out much of a moral message.

[Nikov]

No, Prohibition was the culmination of the longstanding Temperance Movement in the U.S. It wasn't an overnight thing by any means.

Also... neeeecrooooo.