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[Blackdutchie]

Ronald decides it is best to form a party of hunters and explore the wilderness around the village for sites of interest. (Other villages, undiscovered food sources, environmental special stuff (waterfalls, cliffs) If not on a long journey they will gather every morning at dawn to hunt. He proposes in the council that a woman whose man is absent or deceased, must be cared for by the village as a whole.

I suggest that Ronald pick 10 farmers to become hunters.
I feel that Black's proposal is discriminatory. Women can work fine on their own, unless pregnant or caring for small children. But then, widowers with small children would also have trouble finding work. Thus, l feel that we should tax a small portion of all harvests, and set it aside to feed any who are both (physically unable to work OR who are the sole caretaker of one or more children younger then six), AND who have no family to turn to for help.
[/quote]

This.

[Sheb]

Oh, USEC, I think you forget to add that a part of the population isn't able to work. Children under 6, women in their last months of pregnancy and old guys just cannot work.

Perhaps we could have the population be changed to "working population," and have food/water consumption increased by 25% or so? It's easier then tracking the non-working population, and we could still pass reforms to cull the weak/increase working age to reduce that amount ... Uh, if we were feeling cruel, I mean. Plus, it sidesteps the issue of newborns working.

Actually this idea is pretty good.


As for the workforce issue, it is true that most of the time, taking away 5 or 10% of the workforce is okay. But not always: you wouldn't want me to take away 5% of our men while the enemy is attacking for instance. Same is true with harvest, for this month at least we need almost every hand. We'll then have lots of spare workers to play with.

Likewise, I think Ronald should form a party of +-10 hunters only next month, after the harvest. It has the added benefits that the craftsmen got spare time to make bows, arrows and spears for them.

As for the insurance scheme, I think I got a better ideas. We should have some kind of communal day care for the kids. During the day, they would all gather in the meeting hall (Once we get one) and be fed there. Pregnant women, old people and generally anyone not able to feed himself would go there too and get food for watching and teaching the kids. Food will be furnished by a tax of harvest (Do we have private property yet?). This scheme would save workforce (Women can work instead of watching their kids), feed the poor and foster a sense of community in our village.

[Blackdutchie]

So effectively it'd double our workforce and it'd grow twice as fast by freeing up the women?

[Sheb]

Well, women are already working some of the times, and having children, so I wouldn't say double. But it would improve bot our workforce and our population (see it as an incentive to breed).

[Ochita]

It is the morning after Oleb had his speach. Ochita was infront of a crowd of around alot. Ochita thought that he should make some type of counting system later. The day was dusty and his daughter was near him, breaking the boys hearts as they swooned over her.
"My friends and fellow craftsmen! You might have come from Oleb's speech of how we shall construct a great building, and we shall! The spirits themselves have joined to help us in these bricks. We shall create a meeting place where the council can improve our future! The design will include large round tables with chairs around them, pillars that will reach up to the spirits in the air! Lets get to work!"

It is now evening at Ochita's house. Around the table where Ochita is looking at a scetch of the building to be made. "Darn it, this progect would take weeks of work just to get the blocks needed!" "Daddy.. I heard that ronald is going to make a group of hunters and... I want to join them!" "What?! I thought you were happy with being a craftsman like me?" "Daddy you dont get me. Please..." "*Sigh* Are you determined on this?" "Yes!" "Then go. I can't stop you." "Thanks daddy! I wont let you down!"

[Sheb]

*That very evening, in Sheb's large family house, the family eat together after a long day of hard work.*

Sheb: I then tought of making some kind of legs to carry the platform, but I couldn't get them to move right. I went to ask Ochita if he could help, and then I saw that contraption one of his apprentice was using to make a clay jar and...

Shet (Sheb's elder son): Dad, I'm sure it is interesting and all, but I got something to tell you...
Sheb: ... to stick many legs on... What? What did you say? I'm afraid I may be a bit of a bore with project, but I4m sure it'll save much work next harvest!
Shet: Well, you're in the council, so you've heard Ronald want to make a hunting group, right?
Sheb: Yeah. Those councilmen are all the same, always trying to get valuable farmhands away from the fields! When will they understand that it is us, farmers, that provide them with the bread they eat everyday!
Shet: Well, there is a rumor that say that Ochita's daughter (1) want to join the hunting group, so...
Sheb: What? Oh man, I'd love to see Ochita's face right now! I cannot wait for the next council!
Shet: I'd like to join them too.
Sheb: What? You cannot possibly be serious! You're a farmer! Hunting is so dangerous, with all those evil beasts and spirits roaming the forest. And what will your mom say?
Shet: Mom said she didn't like it, but that it was my choice.
Sheb: She said that? Well, then... I guess I got no choice. You'll be hunting son, but not until the harvest is over, and without my blessing. I hope your younger brother won't get such stupid ideas.


(1) Ochita, you should choose a name for your daughter.

[Ochita]

How about Roxanne?

[Sheb]

Hey, it's you daughter/secondary character. You choose.



But I like Roxanne. I can definitely picture my son getting in love with a girl called Roxanne (As opposed to a girl called Leontine or Clitorine).

[Ochita]

He better be prepared...

[USEC_OFFICER]

I feel that I should point two things out:

1. Wet farming (What your farmers are doing) is five times more productive than dry farming.

2. Farmers in Mesopotamia gave 2/3^rds of their harvest as taxes. (1/3^rd to the temples, and 1/3^rd to the king) Quite a few of those farmers could get wealthy from that 1/3^rd (Just so you know)

Actually, I think one turn should be longer, at least 6 month. Going from a neolithical village to a powerful city-state in a couple of generation is just silly.

How about three months? Sounds good?

Oh, USEC, I think you forget to add that a part of the population isn't able to work. Children under 6, women in their last months of pregnancy and old guys just cannot work. As far as life expectancy goes, it was indeed the huge children death-rate. A man that lived over 20 could expect to live to 60-65, except plagues or lack of food, especially if he was rather wealthy (As we are).You should roll a D20 dice or something every year to account for infectious diseases (1 means death) and start rolling a second dice around 55.

Also, can I be a little older? A wealthy farmer with teenage sons should be at least 30-35. (People had children early in those days). 32 seems fine to me. (We'll assume his dad died early so he inherited the whole fields).

I'll add in the part of the population that can't work (Mostly very old people and babies.) They'll add an extra 10% to needs. Also, a person in the middle ages could expect to live 60-65 if he survived puberty. For a neolithic village, I think it would be below that. I'll start checking at 50 instead.

(Do we have private property yet?)

Not all that formally. It's mostly 'This is the piece of land that I work', which is slightly different from the modern idea of private property.

EDIT: Ages are more random now. Cyrus (maxicaxi) is the youngest, at 22, while Oleb (Nirur Torir) is the oldest, at 33.

EDIT2: The village has domesticated ox, just so you know.

EDIT3: I'm not happy with the way I currently do supply/demand. I'm wondering if I should store the goods produced in a market type system, which would make things more complex, or if the supply for the village is only based on what it produced for that turn.

[Sheb]

1. Wet farming (What your farmers are doing) is five times more productive than wet farming.

I think you made a mistake there. You mean we are really productive or not? Also, farmers in Mesopotamia had carts, better tools, metal, animals and plows, irrigation... Lots of stuff we lack as of now. Can we get an idea what our climate's like?

Also, when you say we don't really have private property, does that mean that food is shared in the village, or do I get to keep my harvest (Which is supposed to be large I think) and then use it as I want, sharing it or keeping it, maybe even using it to buy influence?

Anyway, I stand by my previous actions.

[Sheb]

You didn't explain the difference between wet farming and wet farming in your edits. :p

[USEC_OFFICER]

I think you made a mistake there. You mean we are really productive or not? Also, farmers in Mesopotamia had carts, better tools, metal, animals and plows, irrigation... Lots of stuff we lack as of now. Can we get an idea what our climate's like?

I meant that if we didn't have the river, we would spend most of our time scraping a living out of the soil, with the technology that we have. This is why most civilizations started next to rivers, they can produce the large amounts of food needed to support a government. I'm saying that with the right technology, we can produce tons of food.

Also, when you say we don't really have private property, does that mean that food is shared in the village, or do I get to keep my harvest (Which is supposed to be large I think) and then use it as I want, sharing it or keeping it, maybe even using it to buy influence?

I slightly misunderstood here. Yes, you get to keep your harvests and anything you make. You stuff is your stuff. However, the ideas of private property (as in land, that's what confused me, I thought you meant land) were less rigid than today. With each flooding of the river (The river floods, by the way) the borders between farms shift slightly. Additionally, land ownership would be extremely fuzzy. The size of your land would be how-much you can negotiate with your neighbours. Since you can plow and farm a lot, you'll have a large amount of land. After all, the river is quite long enough for everyone.

(You'll have an idea of what your climate is like when Blackdutchie goes hunting, I'll explain then)

[USEC_OFFICER]

You didn't explain the difference between wet farming and wet farming in your edits. :p

Wet farming involves irrigation. Dry farming involves waiting for it to rain.

[Sheb]

And which one are we practising? (I'm just confused because you wrote wet farming instead of dry farming up there.)