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Author Topic: Mathematics Help Thread  (Read 226913 times)

TheDarkStar

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2010 on: January 30, 2016, 10:56:55 pm »

What's the derivative and anti-derivative of ex/2? It's not just ex/2 is it?

The derivative of ex/2 is (1/2)ex/2 as TBF said.

The antiderivative of ex/2 is also straightforward:

Taking u = x/2 and thus du = (1/2)dx -> 2du = dx,
ex/2dx = eu * (2du)
= 2eudu
= 2eu + C
and substituting x/2 back in for u you get:
2ex/2 + C

Integrating expressions involving exponentials ends up relying on getting the expression to equal some form of eudu if you can't get rid of them with cancelling, expansions, substitution, integration by parts (you'll learn about this last one in Calculus 2/AP Calculus BC or maybe AB depending on the teacher/some equivalent course), etc.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2011 on: January 30, 2016, 11:01:01 pm »

Hoo boy, advanced stuff.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2012 on: January 30, 2016, 11:08:53 pm »

Oh right, U substitution. It's been so long since I've done basic derivatives/integrals without my TI-89 that I forgot what you actually do. I miss when math was easy and made sense.
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2013 on: January 30, 2016, 11:09:52 pm »

TI-89...
*drools*
They don't let you use them on the tests though...
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2014 on: January 30, 2016, 11:12:22 pm »

Hoo boy, advanced stuff.

It's not too bad - the integration itself is usually covered in the first calculus class people take. In addition, it looks a lot better on paper than typed. However, it occurs to me that you might not have learned about u-substitution for solving integrals yet (but doing exponentials before u-substitution would be strange).
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2015 on: January 30, 2016, 11:13:03 pm »

We just haven't touched integrals yet.
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2016 on: January 30, 2016, 11:26:25 pm »

We just haven't touched integrals yet.

Oh I see. That makes sense now.

For finding the antiderivative of ex/2 without integration, you could look at it like this:

For an expression of the form b*eax, differentiating gets you b*(eax)(a) = a*b*eax. Since find the antiderivative undoes the derivative operation, the antiderivative of a*b*eax is just the original expression. In your case, a*b = 1, or with some rearranging b = 1/a (because the coefficient of ex/2 is one). Rewriting, you get a*(1/a)*eax. Undoing the differentiation, the result is (1/a)*eax. Using your example where a = 1/2, you get 2ex/2.

The concept can probably be worded better, but hopefully it gets at least some of the idea across.

Edit: Fixed.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 11:45:47 pm by TheDarkStar »
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2017 on: January 30, 2016, 11:31:09 pm »

The example was a=1/2.  But, I sorta get it.
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2018 on: January 30, 2016, 11:46:21 pm »

The example was a=1/2.

Fixed (and I had messed up in the last step anyway).
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Graknorke

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2019 on: January 31, 2016, 04:02:47 pm »

Is antiderivative a genuine term?
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Sacasco

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2020 on: January 31, 2016, 04:51:37 pm »

Is antiderivative a genuine term?
Yes, I think it is.
From what I understand, the indefinite integral is the set of all antiderivatives. That is, if f(x)=2x (let's keep things simple), the indefinite integral is x^2+c, but, for example, x^2+5 would be an antiderivative, as would x^2-6 and every other possible value of c.
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2021 on: January 31, 2016, 05:02:25 pm »

Is antiderivative a genuine term?
Yes, I think it is.
From what I understand, the indefinite integral is the set of all antiderivatives. That is, if f(x)=2x (let's keep things simple), the indefinite integral is x^2+c, but, for example, x^2+5 would be an antiderivative, as would x^2-6 and every other possible value of c.
Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Antiderivatives and indefinite integrals of f are the exact same thing, they're just preimages of f under the differentiation operator, i.e. functions whose derivative is f. The +c notation is just confusing and stupid if you don't explain what the c is supposed to do there.
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Spehss _

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2022 on: February 01, 2016, 10:03:47 pm »

What's the anti-derivative of lnx? (1/2)(lnx)2?
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Spehss _

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2023 on: February 01, 2016, 10:10:11 pm »

Um, no.

int(ln(x)dx)=x*ln(x)-int(dx)=x*ln(x)-x, I think.

As for how, it'd be integration by parts

I'm asking since it's a part of an integration by parts problem already. Guess I'll just use the derivative of lnx and the antiderivative of the other part instead, and see how that goes.
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Spehss _

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Re: Mathematics Help Thread
« Reply #2024 on: February 01, 2016, 10:17:46 pm »

Well, integration by parts can be nested.
I have found that out already, yes. i hate it

When integrating by parts, how does one choose which part is used for the derivative and which part is used for the anti-derivative without trial and error? I keep picking the wrong sides for each problem and wind up having to erase everything and start a problem over, making homework take effectively twice as long. i hate it so much
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