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[ChairmanPoo]

Though it's hard to pick, since there are so many facets to like about his books, but Night Watch is one of my favorites.

I used to like it best, but I can't forgive anyone who rips off Victor Hugo so whole-heartedly.  My loyalty to Hugo is greater than my loyalty to Pratchett.

It's a homassh girl! it's a homassh!

(That being said I don't like Pratchett that much)

[Vector]

I've actually never read Les Miserables, or any of Hugo's works, in novel form. Should I add them to the list of books to read when I'm done being frivolous?

I am a total Notre-Dame de Paris nutbag.  I love that book to death and have read it maybe... three or four times?

That said, get ready to read with humor.  You have to understand that most of it is tongue-in-cheek, from the melodrama to the loving descriptions of architecture.  Same thing with the characters.  Hugo is a very grandiose, romantic, literary writer, so I think a key component to one's enjoyment is a willingness to be swept away.  If you let go of your feelings on how a book "should" be written and what topics one "should" discuss, you may find yourself enraptured by a man who writes with great passion, love, and dedication.  I read his writing more for the "experience of spending time with Hugo" than I do for any particular love of the theme or setting.

Even Hernani, a play with an incredibly boring plot, nearly drowned me in its sheer poetry and vigor.

Yes.  Add them to your list.  Read them.  Love them.

It's a homassh girl! it's a homassh!

Yeah, I know.  I'm just sick of various people springboarding off of Hugo's creations and leaving the public with the idea that they created them.  Disney's version of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, for example.

There's something in particular about Pratchett's homages that bother me.  I don't know what it is, precisely, but I often get the feeling that he doesn't respect the original work very much.  Maskerade was especially bad for that.  I find myself wondering why he doesn't just write his own damned plot, rather than using his characters to upstage the originals.

[Siquo]

There's something in particular about Pratchett's homages that bother me.  I don't know what it is, precisely, but I often get the feeling that he doesn't respect the original work very much.  Maskerade was especially bad for that.  I find myself wondering why he doesn't just write his own damned plot, rather than using his characters to upstage the originals.

Maybe you should just let yourself be swept away by it, instead of thinking about what it was derived from

(I love Pratchett. Bring it on. And knowing Pratchett, he can do both homage and satire of the same piece in one masterful stroke.)


Just started in: The Children's Book by A.S. Byatt. I'm in for just a few pages, and still don't know what to make of it. I know nothing about the book, but it won't show itself by it's cover either. It can become dreary chicklit or literary historic fiction or a traveling tale or harry effing potter, the writing style doesn't give anything away. Yet.

[Realmfighter]

Once I'm done the book I'm reading now there will only be two more culture novels.

So good.

[Vector]

Maybe you should just let yourself be swept away by it, instead of thinking about what it was derived from

I try, and I honestly did love Night Watch.  It's a great book in its own right, but I was somewhat disappointed to discover that he hadn't thought that plot up himself--because I loved that story, and was giving him a bunch of congratulations for its dramatic development.  Turns out they belonged more to Hugo than Pratchett, so although I can still say "yeah, that was excellent," I can't feel quite the same way about it anymore.

I will not take back what I said about Maskerade, however, because it was a fairly shitty piece of work.

[Solifuge]

Seeing Mr. Hugo's glowing review, I guess I'll give something by him a shot. Library Ho!

There's something in particular about Pratchett's homages that bother me.  I don't know what it is, precisely, but I often get the feeling that he doesn't respect the original work very much.  Maskerade was especially bad for that.  I find myself wondering why he doesn't just write his own damned plot, rather than using his characters to upstage the originals.

In his defense, the entire premise of Discworld is built on satire, parody, and literary/historical references. I think my favorite part about his writing is that he's cultured and well-read, and it shows in his works. His writing is like an intellectual playground that he shares with his audience, full of ideas he's gleaned from a life of reading, learning, and living; and he wraps it all up in sharp wit and British Humor. In a few ways, I equate him with a modern Mark Twain.

Homages aside (which were heavier in his earlier writing days, *cough cough FaustMort Cough*), he does tell his own stories with his own characters, and I tend to find his ideas worthwhile. I think Small Gods would be my favorite work by him. Yes, the Ephebians are analogues to Greek/Renaissance thinkers, and the Omnian sacking of their Library was akin to the burning of the Library of Alexandria, etc. His fantasy world has its pieces taken from the real world (and what story, ultimately, doesn't?), but the story of Omnia and Ephebe, the conversations between Brutha, Vorbis, and their respective versions of the Great God Om, make for an interesting exploration of the dangers of faith versus theory, and knowledge versus dogma, and deals with it in a very even-handed way. Philosophers can be driven to use their knowledge to create tools of destruction and war. Zealots can be incensed by their prophets to do horrible things without questioning. Just the same, faith is merely a form of trust, and knowledge can make peace.

If you can dig past the silly trappings, he's got some good things to say.

[Vector]

Yeah, I don't mind the analogues.  What I minded was that Night Watch seemed to be very, very heavily plot-driven, and kind of low on the satire.  With that in mind, it seemed like a fanfiction more than a successful satire.

In essence, I think his best works are massive pastiches, while the ones that ring worst are the homages.  There's a fine line between being referential and leaning heavily on a single previously-established work.

[Solifuge]

I liked that Night Watch explored one the more dynamic Everyman characters I've ever read: Sam Vimes. He's just so much fun to be around!

I think one of his strengths as an author is in writing archetypal characters that are dynamic and interesting. Lord Vetinari is terrifyingly competent, and straddles the line between hero and villain delightfully. Captain Carrot is spotless and impeccable, and just lovably naive, while inexplicably being able to take care of things.

There are the little thought experiments he poses with his setting as well... Trolls being made of minerals and having silicone brains (thus thinking faster when it's cold), taking the flat Earth supported by a turtle/elephants story literally (to the point where sailing off the end of the world could land you on the moon), and Death being an entity who personally escorts you off to the afterlife (thus if he's taking time off, no one can properly die), are just fun little pseudo-SciFi ideas that it's fun to toy around with.

Maybe it's just that he has a knack for making you both laugh and think at the same time... two skills I value highly. I'd like to think we are kindred spirits, he and I.

[Realmfighter]

Go to him, Solifuge.

[Vector]

OTP: Terry Pratchett x Solifuge?

... Hmmmm.

*strokes goatee*

[Realmfighter]

When I first read that I saw something entirely different for goatee.

[Vector]

When I first read that I saw something entirely different for goatee.

Good for you.  Sorry, sheep are not my fetish.  Goats 4 eva.

[Mindmaker]

Night Watch also contains a lot of dialogues, which are always the most memorable parts of his books.

And could you elaborate what you mean by plot-driven, Vector?
Because really can't agree with that.

Vimes main goal should be to hunt down carcer and to return back to the present, by making sure history somehow gets fixed.
However the book becomes more of a jumble of impressions.

I always wanted to know more about his past, what made him the wreck, which he was at the beginning of the series.

Seeing all the familiar figures in a totally different light... loving it.

[Vector]

And could you elaborate what you mean by plot-driven, Vector?
Because really can't agree with that.

What I mean, really, is that I read the book for plot and story, not for humor.

[Leafsnail]

I actually really liked the Science of Discworld books.  They were... well, done nicely.

I think "plot driven" is usually opposed to "character driven", right?  Can result in problems.  I do quite enjoy ones involving the Night Watch, though, because they're generally quite fun (although with less depths than some of the others).