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[Umi]

Most of what we assosiate dwarf fortress with right now is the insanity of it.  The mass genocide, the physics defying megaprojects, stupid ai, bugs that add additional insanity, etc.

But what about when he patches all that?  Eventually it will either be fixed so that it doesn't happen or it will be too costly to consider doing it.  Other civs will have competent armies and economics will matter.  Pissing off the elves might actually spell the end of your fort.  Megaprojects will have to be toned down with improved physics and will become insanely costly to build and upkeep.

Sure it may be a good game in the future, but it will be so entirely different, so much more forcably tame that it won't be recognizable.

I'm just kind of sad that everything will be patched.  Sometimes the bugs are more fun than the features.  Sometimes a lack of physics is better than having physics.

What are your thoughts?

[Kogan Loloklam]

My thoughts are that the insanity of bugs will be changed to a very complex environment that is even more complex.

Can you imagine a bandit group overthrowing a king due to slavery? No? Look harder at the Future of the fortress potential consequences then.
If Robin Hood is a goal, and that is just taxes...

[Zaerosz]

Or you could just play the versions where that hasn't been implemented.

[Gearheart]

I see the exploit of idiot AI and makeshift physics making way for a glorious era in which the game becomes even more in depth and complex, really.

Right now it goes like this.

"I'm building megaproject A. I've mapped it out on a grid, now I just need to build several thousand walls"
 
I can see this speech changing into something along the same lines, but a lot more complex.

"I'm building megaproject A. I've mapped it out, and this part, X, will be made from material Y due to it's higher tensile strength and ability to be fairly easily produced in bulk. The supports will be made from material P, due to it's nature of gaining strength when pressure is placed on it (Though it is fairly difficult to synthesise, so may take a while), and will run through the entire structure to keep it stable. The turbines in sector Z will operate C, which in turn allows it to perform elf killing function D (The one with the giant, flamethrowing chainsaws). The turbines will be powered by E, which, as you can see, is extremely efficient and can also run function F, making the lives of anyone around much easier."

A rather drawn out example, but it does get the point across.

After all, Toady's overall goal is to be able to create a world exactly how you want it, so that you can play exactly how you want to, and I would imagine that would include different physics settings, degrees of magic, not entirely sure about AI, but what the hey. I'm sure some of those quirks will be preserved simply due to their enjoyability.

[MaximumZero]

Remember, all the bugs that people like are actually features.

[Sowelu]

Sounds kind of like the shift from 2D to 3D, and that was totally worth it.  Agreed, the new megaprojects with better physics will be even more awesome (especially once builders are smarter and can be trusted to build with less micromanagement).  Also, think of it this way:  Building that enormous spiraling cathedral no longer means "I had a lot of patience", it now means "I am a true architect".  With difficulty comes the potential for greatness.

[HonkyPunch]

If you don't like what evolves into just play the old versions. I for one am excited for the endless possibilities that Toady has planned for the game.

[Gearheart]

Sounds kind of like the shift from 2D to 3D, and that was totally worth it.  Agreed, the new megaprojects with better physics will be even more awesome (especially once builders are smarter and can be trusted to build with less micromanagement).  Also, think of it this way:  Building that enormous spiraling cathedral no longer means "I had a lot of patience", it now means "I am a true architect".  With difficulty comes the potential for greatness.

Apply for a job at a building agency and hand them your DF save file in substitute for a CV.

Any DF player worth his/her salt would so get that job.

[Nirur Torir]

Attempted genocide of elves will bring massive elven armies down on our forts

It will be more fun when a fort of 40 dwarves cannot hold out against the wrath of the entire elven military through sheer force of arms. We'll probably have greatly improved diplomacy, however, including some sort of mutual-defense pact. In this case, "help us kill the elves" pacts.

Megaprojects with physics

I strongly suspect that physics will be an init option, much like we have the option now to make buildings float, or render magma harmless.

[shadow_archmagi]

Someday, physics will be improved to the point that dwarves build a 900 foot tall version of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmREjs6NYVY

[Creamcorn]

Someday, physics will be improved to the point that dwarves build a 900 foot tall version of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmREjs6NYVY

That was awesome. Also, until Toady_One takes away our abilities to edit raws, than physics don't matter.

[Urist McKing]

Someday, physics will be improved to the point that dwarves build a 900 foot tall version of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmREjs6NYVY

That was awesome. Also, until Toady_One takes away our abilities to edit raws, than physics don't matter.

Which I doubt he will EVER do. The whole game is meant to be extrememly customizable to tailor to your elf human gobbo cat whatever the hell you want genocide needs.

[ZhangC1459]

It doesn't sadden me.  Well, maybe a little, since it means I'll have no life.  It scares me because it's already goddamn epic, and adding anything else will make my head a splode.

I quite agree with the example Gearheart posted.  Imagine: our current megaprojects seem to be torque-proof, that is, you can build an entire floor hanging off one side of a tiny pillar without it collapsing.  Now imagine that for every project, you need to either know the calculations for where to place supports (a true DF player) or just memorize where it should be for each material.  Now imagine that if you don't build a secure enough foundation that can support the weight of everything above it, then the entire thing collapses and kills everyone.  We could be real mega-architects.

And that would be good since nobody would ever build our designs in the real world.

[Umi]

I think I conveyed my feelings wrong.

It's not that I want him to stop production or anything like that.  I doubt I will ever go back to the old versions either.  I don't think it will be bad at all, just fundamentally different.  Awesome none-the-less, but the atmosphere will change.

[MaximumZero]

Embrace change, do not fear it. In embracing change, you welcome growth, and open yourself to a vast expanse of possibilities.