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[RAM]

I would like to see this as something that could be modded in, along with a great many other forms of racial variance. Actually, this is irrelevant, just have some dwarves that won't marry, it could be one of many social traits that would influence how creatures interact. They will likely form their own clubs or whatever much as the dwarves who refuse to eat plump helmet derived goods...

What would be interesting however is if you could mess with the genders, have a dozen different genders for some races, have some with only a single gender, have some races that reproduce regardless, but have larger or smaller litter sizes based upon the available partners...

[Phreak]

Well I will start off by saying that I've never seen gay men or lesbian women in any game I've played and I'm mostly talking about real company games that earn money and not stuff like molendustria.com which is weird to say the least, I'm talking about the website, if there really was gay aspects in a game and it wasn't just crude gay sex then sure I'm fine with that as well as it could be a good idea in DF but I'm saying it might give Toady some problems such as emails from protestents and whatever else, truthfully I just don't think an ASCII game should have homosexuals when it doesn't have aspects such as more entertainment for dwarves, a slightly more simpler military, a more stable(meaning bug fixes) and advanced version maybe at.19 or .20, and some more basic features which I can't think of right now. I'm just worried that DF might get some bad controversy.

[Tagert]

Well I will start off by saying that I've never seen gay men or lesbian women in any game I've played and I'm mostly talking about real company games that earn money

Unsure why this is a point to be made, but in response:
Dragon Age
Fable
Mass Effect
Bully
Knights of the Old Republic
Vampire Bloodlines
GTA4: Ballad of Gay Tony

I'm sure there are more.

[Phreak]

 Well I guess I was quite wrong and forgetful...

[G-Flex]

truthfully I just don't think an ASCII game should have homosexuals when it doesn't have aspects such as more entertainment for dwarves, a slightly more simpler military, a more stable(meaning bug fixes) and advanced version maybe at.19 or .20, and some more basic features which I can't think of right now. I'm just worried that DF might get some bad controversy.

I don't really think anybody's saying that this should go in the game right now; I see it as more a natural thing to include whenever cultures in DF get fleshed out in general, at which point it would be even weirder not to include it in any fashion.

Also, I don't see why Toady should tiptoe around something just because there are intolerant people out there.

[Tagert]

As a gay man I truthfully don't mind whether or not this goes in. If it does, sweet, if not *shrug*

The only thing I'd like, if it were added, was that it be added in a mature way. Even though there have been a few games recently that deal with homosexual themes they almost always depict the stereotype. You know; lisping, feminine, precious and all that(talking in particular gay men). While there are gay men out there like that, the majority are not. (So, not all gay dwarves should be interior decorators or whatever)

I'm only saying this here for the sake of the thread, since I know that Toady is someone who handles things in a mature way.

[G-Flex]

See Toady's quote on page 3 of this thread (in my first post here) regarding that. Seems like he's fine with adding it in a fairly naturalistic/non-stereotyped manner. Not that it even makes any sense to include modern Western stereotypes (or attitudes of any sort, really) about gay people in a fantasy game modeled largely after Medieval Europe, but I wouldn't put that past some people.

[Jayce]

How about you gay people stop being selfish,trying to add something to the game that really isnt needed.I dont hate gays i dont give a S**t about gayness,but i really dislike having someone push there politics on me.

[Josephus]

How about you gay people stop being selfish,trying to add something to the game that really isnt needed.I dont hate gays i dont give a S**t about gayness,but i really dislike having someone push there politics on me.

If this game were about 'things that weren't really needed', then we'd have a fortress builder sim and nothing more.

[G-Flex]

How about you gay people stop being selfish,trying to add something to the game that really isnt needed.I dont hate gays i dont give a S**t about gayness,but i really dislike having someone push there politics on me.

Er, what does this have to do with "pushing politics"? I've advocated including the issue of sexual orientation in a natural way that is completely de-politicized, and I don't think anyone else is saying that we should include it in order to further any sort of political agenda. I also don't see how that's selfish at all.

Also: Why do you assume that anybody in support of this idea is gay? I also wouldn't mind women, children, polygamists, monogamists, bigamists, and people who like hard liquor in the game, because they're reasonable things, but I'm not any of those either.

[Vaftrudner]

How about you gay people stop being selfish,trying to add something to the game that really isnt needed.I dont hate gays i dont give a S**t about gayness,but i really dislike having someone push there politics on me.

1. Of the few people who have said "I'm gay" in this thread, not everyone wants it, nor cares.
2. Very few things that exist in DF are "needed". It's up to Toady what he wants to add, but of course we can suggest stuff, which is why there's a suggestion forum. If you think that it won't add to the game in any way, say so, but saying that we're "pushing" it onto you is just confrontational and unnecessary.
3. It's not political, it's historical. Regardless of politics, there has always been homosexuality in all human populations we have written records from. It's of course up to Toady if he wants to add this human trait to dwarves, but don't call it "pushing politics".

[Shade-o]

Since genders have the same graphic and have the same names, there would be no way to actually find out what sort of relationships were in your fortress besides actually hunting down each and every dwarf and noting their personal details.

Functionally it would be identical to the couple that simply doesn't roll the RNG high enough to have kids.

[G-Flex]

Since genders have the same graphic and have the same names, there would be no way to actually find out what sort of relationships were in your fortress besides actually hunting down each and every dwarf and noting their personal details.

Functionally it would be identical to the couple that simply doesn't roll the RNG high enough to have kids.

You're assuming what it would be like if it were implemented now. Presumably, this would only happen when social customs/culture in DF gets fleshed out to the point where something like this would actually matter.

[Shade-o]

You're assuming that the interface will improve.

[G-Flex]

Huh? You mentioned more than interface concerns. You also mentioned names and a few functional considerations, like how the dwarves interact with each other. Interface has hardly anything to do with it.

But speaking of interface, either caste (and therefore gender) specific graphics are in right now, or they were almost put in and got put off in the mean time. And even without that, gender-differentiated names aren't an "interface" issue, nor are any of the things you mentioned aside from graphics and figuring out their relationship details, which, yes, could very well improve.

Assuming that part of the interface won't change is at least as foolish (I'd say more) than assuming it will.